file Sex Identifiers For Vampires?

21 Oct 2018 02:09 #91335 by LivesByProxy
If I may, I'll address some of these comments and explain.

Starting with SelfBiased's comments:
I don't think it's too detailed for the scope of the game, but IDK how to prove or disprove that. Vampires already have a sex associated with them, though, and many of them use 'he' or 'she' in the text box when referring to the vampire in question. and I think that going back and adding a little male ♂ or female ♀ symbol in the bottom-right corner (opposite the Grouping number) would be trivial to implement.

As far as the neutral 'they' and 'their' and 'that vampire' and such, those terms are still useful and applicable in every instance that a vampire's sex is not necessary for a card's effect.

Now, talking about non-binary and gender-expression is different than sex, as I understand it. Sex is biological and binary in humans. Although, if you wanted to play with the gender aspects, it would be as easy as printing a male ♂ vampire that got a bonus vs other male ♂ vampires (same goes for lesbian vampires). Trans-people would be more tricky I guess, but I find it amusing that a game about inhuman monsters has anyone (much less a certain demographic) jostling to be represented. :D

When I made the comment about 'mature' marketing, I was poking fun at WW (hence the quote marks around mature.) They've tried so hard for years to present 'dark, gritty, mature stories full of violence, sex, death, and despair' and whatnot. In the past they've tried so hard to be edgy that it was cringe-inducing to me. Even now, they're marketing themselves as 'the mature' RPG, so much so that they feel they need to print a warning label on the book and have a chapter within the book - all because they want to address 'mature' themes.

Snodig, the card Castrate isn't about semen or hormones. It's about humiliating the receiving vampire. Maybe the use of sterile in the text was misleading? I viewed it as the equivalent of a Prince saying, "You don't get to make sire progeny." Only, instead of a Prince, it was any vampire strong enough to humiliate the recipient.

Varkku, Thelonius, Reverend, could you explain please? Imagine the possibilities. :)

=======

I won't argue with further exploring Sect and Age and Titles and such. I actually wish more cards did this sort of thing. Seeing how Elder Intervention was printed without anything to do with an older vampire taking over the blocking, or Pack Tactics has nothing to do with the number or clan of vampires you control, is a real head-scratcher.

All that said, I think playing with a vampire's Sex as an trait is as cool as playing with Sect, Titles, Age, Clan, Disciplines, etc.

Cunning Linguist
Requires :PRE: or :SER::
Action Modifier. :modifier: Only usable during a referendum. Force any female ♀ vampire to cast votes or ballots as you wish. You may lock or unlock that vampire. [Limited]
Reaction. :reaction: As above, and you may add 1 blood (from the blood bank) to that vampire or burn 1 blood from that vampire. [Limited]


Alpha Status
Action. :action:
Unique. Requires a male ♂ vampire.
Put this card on this vampire. While this vampire has the highest combined discipline levels of Celerity, Fortitude, and Potence, this vampire gets +4 votes. If this action is blocked and this acting vampire is still ready, and the opposing vampire is not ready, this action resolves as though it were unblocked and successful. Any male ♂ vampire can attempt to steal this card as a (D) action.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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21 Oct 2018 06:34 - 21 Oct 2018 06:35 #91336 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Sex Identifiers For Vampires?

Alpha Status
Action. :action:
Unique. Requires a male ♂ vampire.
Put this card on this vampire. While this vampire has the highest combined discipline levels of Celerity, Fortitude, and Potence, this vampire gets +4 votes. If this action is blocked and this acting vampire is still ready, and the opposing vampire is not ready, this action resolves as though it were unblocked and successful. Any male ♂ vampire can attempt to steal this card as a (D) action.

This card is a prime example of why sex/gender type of thinking might lead into heteronormative ideas that could promote gender dominance structures, even if unintended, where none are needed.

There are both alpha males and alpha females in animal packs. Why would this card then be restricted to male vampires?

The problem is not only about this one card, or any one card. It is about sex and gender being completely unnecessary themes in VtES. Gender or sex do not give advantages or disadvantages in a game of vampires. This is intended. None of these abilities are gender properties, but individual properties. No 'ability' is a gender property in fact.

I would absolutely stay out of this whole area, as it easily turns to represent a social or political agenda where none is due (just... don't take the risk), is cumbersome, is messy and mostly non-binary, and is not actually a thing within the vampire society (even if vampires might use sex as a hunting tool).

This absolutely should not be explored.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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Last edit: 21 Oct 2018 06:35 by Kraus.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, Kushiel, ReverendRevolver, self biased, Khormag

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21 Oct 2018 07:25 #91338 by Bloodartist

This absolutely should not be explored.

Agreed.

1.) Just when non-binaries are slowly becoming a publicly accepted thing (at least in here), we don't want to print a system that opposes the idea and symbolises prejudice and narrowmindedness. Its better to just not mention the whole thing. Especially since the benefits to the card game itself are microscopic. We could have vampire cards that imply that vampires are sexual predators (obviously this does not apply to everyone, think nosferatu) but implying that all vampire cards are either male or female is a terrible idea. Sascha Vykos would object to that at least. The correct form of address in lore is "it".

2.) We would have to errata 1500+ vampire cards.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



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21 Oct 2018 14:32 #91342 by self biased

We could have vampire cards that imply that vampires are sexual predators


i didnt think of this. I very strongly feel that themes relating to sexual assault have no place in the V:tes CCG. It's bad enough that theres already references to it and other things that aren't okay in the game, more of these things or the capacity for more does not need ti be added.
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21 Oct 2018 14:48 #91343 by Boris The Blade

When I made the comment about 'mature' marketing, I was poking fun at WW (hence the quote marks around mature.) They've tried so hard for years to present 'dark, gritty, mature stories full of violence, sex, death, and despair' and whatnot. In the past they've tried so hard to be edgy that it was cringe-inducing to me. Even now, they're marketing themselves as 'the mature' RPG, so much so that they feel they need to print a warning label on the book and have a chapter within the book - all because they want to address 'mature' themes.

There is a big difference here between an RPG and a CCG. In an RPG, the players are the final authors: they get to decide what to include in their game. In a CCG, you cannot control what the other players bring, so the editorial responsibility falls entirely on the publisher.
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21 Oct 2018 16:10 #91344 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic Sex Identifiers For Vampires?
Overall, yes. But it should be nearly crypt related with no noticeable impact on library cards. Going by your example, Imalia is fine, castrate is bad design. I'd allow non-binary choices too (can be male, female, both, neither).

But, when we came to this, WHEN will rules permit multi-clan vampires (is for example Lasombra AND Ventrue at the same time, like Vitel) ?

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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