thoughts on the usage of keywords in Vtes.
19 Sep 2012 07:57 #37259
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: thoughts on the usage of keywords in Vtes.
I'd reform the 'enter combat' cards to be "Choose a <conditions> minion and begin a combat with that minion". It then gives the general structure of "Choose X and then Do Y on X". This makes it similar to Horseshoes, and other directed actions which choose minions.
I do think that the "other Methuselah" part is redundant since you can't combat between your own minions.
Ambush
Choose a ready tapped minion and enter combat. This acting minion gains a maneuver during this combat.
Big Game
Do not replace until the end of the action.
Choose a ready minion and enter combat. If the chosen minion is Red List, this minion gains a maneuver and a press and untaps at the end of the action if this minion is still ready.
Bum's Rush
Do not replace until the end of the action.
Choose a ready minion and enter combat. The acting minion gains an optional maneuver during this combat.
Charge of the Buffalo
Choose a tapped minion and enter combat.
Choose a minion and enter combat. The first round of combat is Close Range and this minion must Strike: Hands Strength + 1 damage.
As
above, but Strike: Hands Strength + 2 damage.
And so forth.
I do think that the "other Methuselah" part is redundant since you can't combat between your own minions.
Ambush

Big Game
Do not replace until the end of the action.

Bum's Rush
Do not replace until the end of the action.

Charge of the Buffalo






And so forth.





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19 Sep 2012 08:46 #37265
by Ohlmann
100% agree (because sometime it have to be said that I can actually find your idea good
)
It is redundant, but worth putting it on the card as reminder, if only to be sure people don't try it to use it with "Taking the skin: minion"
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: thoughts on the usage of keywords in Vtes.
I'd reform the 'enter combat' cards to be "Choose a <conditions> minion and begin a combat with that minion". It then gives the general structure of "Choose X and then Do Y on X". This makes it similar to Horseshoes, and other directed actions which choose minions.
100% agree (because sometime it have to be said that I can actually find your idea good

I do think that the "other Methuselah" part is redundant since you can't combat between your own minions.
It is redundant, but worth putting it on the card as reminder, if only to be sure people don't try it to use it with "Taking the skin: minion"
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19 Sep 2012 09:36 #37272
by Ankha
Incidentally, Horseshoes doesn't use that template, I don't see how it would make it similar to it.
Enter combat with a ready tapped minion controlled by another Methuselah."
"Choose X and then Do Y on X" is quite cumbersome and brings nothing. Ambush could be written (as Charge of the Buffalo):
"
Enter combat with a ready tapped minion". There's no use to introduce a new pattern that's not better than the current one.
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: thoughts on the usage of keywords in Vtes.
The "choose X and" is redundant.It then gives the general structure of
"Choose X and then Do Y on X". This makes it similar to Horseshoes, and other directed actions which choose minions.
Incidentally, Horseshoes doesn't use that template, I don't see how it would make it similar to it.
Redundant with the rules. Can be left as reminder. Your template on the other hand is redundant with itself, within the same sentence.I do think that the "other Methuselah" part is redundant since you can't combat between your own minions.
Original text: "Ambush
Choose a ready tapped minion and enter combat.

"Choose X and then Do Y on X" is quite cumbersome and brings nothing. Ambush could be written (as Charge of the Buffalo):
"

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19 Sep 2012 09:51 #37276
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: thoughts on the usage of keywords in Vtes.
Horseshoes is "Do X to Y" (semantically identical to "Choose Y and do X"). It reinforces the targeting concept by placing it at the front(i.e. are you targeting a minion, a card on a minion or something else) and can set the game up for consistency across all actions in the future.
"Choose X and do Y" clearly identifies targets at the beginning of the text and the effect.
You don't need to make it "Choose X and do Y to X" that is cumbersome.
"Choose X and do Y" clearly identifies targets at the beginning of the text and the effect.
You don't need to make it "Choose X and do Y to X" that is cumbersome.





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19 Sep 2012 10:25 - 19 Sep 2012 10:27 #37281
by Ankha
Otherwise, you'd write: "Choose a ready minion and inflict 1 unpreventable damage." which is clearly wrong semantically. Correct form would be "Choose a ready minion and inflict 1 unpreventable damage to him or her." which is redundant.
"Eat an apple" is more simple than "Choose an apple and eat it."
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: thoughts on the usage of keywords in Vtes.
Wrong. It is "semantically identical" to "Choose Y and do X to it/him/her"Horseshoes is "Do X to Y" (semantically identical to "Choose Y and do X").
Otherwise, you'd write: "Choose a ready minion and inflict 1 unpreventable damage." which is clearly wrong semantically. Correct form would be "Choose a ready minion and inflict 1 unpreventable damage to him or her." which is redundant.
Theorical blabla. I can't see why the game would be better doing that way. Currently, the action and the target of the actions are a simple as a verb and its direct object can be.It reinforces the targeting concept by placing it at the front(i.e. are you targeting a minion, a card on a minion or something else) and can set the game up for consistency across all actions in the future.
"Eat an apple" is more simple than "Choose an apple and eat it."
Last edit: 19 Sep 2012 10:27 by Ankha.
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19 Sep 2012 22:22 #37316
by Reyda
the change is minor and irrelevant.
what next, "choose a methuselah and bleed" for kindred spirits ? :/
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Replied by Reyda on topic Re: thoughts on the usage of keywords in Vtes.
Ambush
Choose a ready tapped minion and enter combat. This acting minion gains a maneuver during this combat.
Big Game
Do not replace until the end of the action.Choose a ready minion and enter combat. If the chosen minion is Red List, this minion gains a maneuver and a press and untaps at the end of the action if this minion is still ready.
Bum's Rush
Do not replace until the end of the action.Choose a ready minion and enter combat. The acting minion gains an optional maneuver during this combat.
(...)
And so forth.
the change is minor and irrelevant.
what next, "choose a methuselah and bleed" for kindred spirits ? :/
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
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