file What is missing from VtES?

10 Nov 2016 01:49 - 10 Nov 2016 01:51 #78926 by xXLazarusXx
What do you think is lacking in vtes, from a game design OR thematic standpoint?
Is there a particular mechanic you wish was implimented added or changed, or maybe a rare clan or even a mummy?

Have you ever mused about a new card type? Or a new way to do influence or crypt management, I want to hear your ideas!

Prince of Lodi, Ca
Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.
:hosk:
Last edit: 10 Nov 2016 01:51 by xXLazarusXx.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2016 19:15 #78928 by alek
Replied by alek on topic What is missing from VtES?
Whole Hunters idea with their different than rest of the game mechanics are the biggest design mistake. Also players elimination with long playing time is a big problem. There is as well a little too much niche mechanics (like slave, red list, etc.) that make it needlessly rules haevy.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2016 21:57 - 10 Nov 2016 21:59 #78929 by jamesatzephyr
The very last thing V:TES needs is more card types, more mechanics used only on nine cards, and yet more corner case rules.

What's missing?

- making a variety of strategies useful
- making corner-case mechanics actually useful, interesting, and usable in solid decks (e.g. Red List, Slave)
- better ways of facilitating interaction and friction between decks without the need for silver bullets (e.g. MMPA vs lots of events vs Imbued vs a combat deck that says "vampire" on most of its cards is a bit of a painful table).
Last edit: 10 Nov 2016 21:59 by jamesatzephyr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, self biased

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Nov 2016 03:01 #78930 by self biased
^^

agreed. there's probably more that will benefit the game by tightening up things rather than adding more things.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Nov 2016 14:12 #78931 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic What is missing from VtES?
Thinking way outside the box here....

VP system rework to speed things up.

Example idea:
1vp for every minion of another methuselah YOU burn.
2vp when your prey is ousted.
1vp when ousting any methuselah.
(so you get 3 vp total when you oust your own prey and 2vp when someone else ousts your prey, the other person gets 1vp for the oust)
First to reach X vps wins where X is twice the amount of players.

Something like that.

More VP gaining ideas can be added to the game.

Current VP system is simpler, but takes a long time and reaches timeout quite often since it's directly tied to ousting players.

There are some benefits for awarding VPs for burning minions.
- Weenies are at a disadvantage (risk for speed)
- Ally decks are at a disadvantage (risk for speed)
- Most aspects of the game become equally relevant (combat, diablerie, bleed, etc)

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Nov 2016 23:04 #78938 by jamesatzephyr

Example idea:
1vp for every minion of another methuselah YOU burn.

First to reach X vps wins where X is twice the amount of players.

Something like that.


I'm not at all sure why a combat deck should be able to win the game on turn 3 or 4, by eating more or less everyone's first and second vampire. Pick a solid multi-rush deck and boom.

I'm also unsure why a terrible player doing something stupid like putting out a bunch of terrible weenie minions should make the game just end after twenty minutes.

Current VP system is simpler, but takes a long time and reaches timeout quite often since it's directly tied to ousting players.


That the VP system is tied to ousting players is largely orthogonal to it taking a long time and/or timing out. The circle-of-death/predator-prey ousting format can work towards a pretty rapid game without much bother - you saw people do it in Magic and other two-player card games, when they made hacks for multi-player formats, for example, and it worked tolerably well. (Obviously, Magic wasn't designed for it, so it's very mushy.)

V:TES has a variety of issues that cause it to take a long time, including:

- the ease with which blood can be regained by some strategies, such as Voter Captivation

- the ease with which blood can be turned into pool, such as Villein

- the ease with which pool can be gained in other fashions (e.g. breed-boon decks)

- the way in which multi-player politics can require an inordinate amount of time, whether through actual V:TES politics (two or three political decks on a table, plus two other players with a hunk of titles), or just general multi-player shenanigans, wheeling and dealing

- the ease with which a player can build a deck that's highly resilient to being ousted, but is otherwise a terrible deck (e.g. a horrific wall deck with next to no aggression), which does horrifying things to the dynamics of the rest of the table

- the large number of strategies that players would like to be able to use which are much worse than the Tier 1 strategies in terms of ability to oust


You could have an oust-based format where aggression was easier across a wide variety of decks, where defence and pool gain were weaker, where opportunities for cross-table shenanigans were harder to pull-off or where the incentives for doing so were massively reduced, and so on.

There are some benefits for awarding VPs for burning minions.


Completely undermining the predator-prey mechanic, the push-pull of spending pool and defending pool, and just turning the table into a free-for-all punch fest should weigh heavily on the "not so beneficial" side of the equation.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, talonz, Rowdy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.116 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum