What is missing from VtES?

xXLazarusXx wrote:

Other games also have this issue. It's not exclusive to VtES. Ever played against a pure counterspell deck in magic? No one ever said it was fun, but it's totally a legit strategy.

Right. VTES and Magic (and any other game that include "not fun" but viable strategies) are shitty games under my definition. For VTES, I find two player games with decks constructed to interact well with each other to be lots of fun. An official format along these lines is what's missing from VTES.

Well, do you have suggestions?
I play many, many games, and a "hard counter" exists in every one of them, and very game ever for that matter. Saying a game is shitty because of this is a weak arguement, imho.

I'll spend 4+ hours on a game of vtes/40k/Netrunner because I love the game, though I knew I was loosing.
Winning isn't everything. Sometimes loosing gracefully can be just as fun. I play Vtes because I love the lore, the world and the pnp. Not always to win.

xXLazarusXx wrote:

Well, do you have suggestions?

I think I've provided a suggestion previously, haven't I? The whole two-player format with preconstructed decks? Was I not clear or something?

I play many, many games, and a "hard counter" exists in every one of them, and very game ever for that matter. Saying a game is shitty because of this is a weak arguement, imho.

I am stating my opinion that I personally do not like VTES the way it is usually played and that an alternate format should exist. I am not trying to argue or persuade anyone to agree with my viewpoint. You asked what is missing, and I am providing my opinion. That's fine that you feel differently or disagree. I like hearing opinions on the game that are different than mine, such as yours, and that is why I am posting and reading.

I'll spend 4+ hours on a game of vtes/40k/Netrunner because I love the game, though I knew I was loosing.
Winning isn't everything. Sometimes loosing gracefully can be just as fun. I play Vtes because I love the lore, the world and the pnp. Not always to win.

You're talking about something different here: winning and losing. I don't care about winning or losing either. I just think that games with strategies that make the game feel like a chore rather than an a fun past time are shitty. And that is how I feel about VTES. I have an alternative way of playing for this reason.

xXLazarusXx wrote:

I'll spend 4+ hours on a game of vtes/40k/Netrunner because I love the game, though I knew I was loosing

4 hours on a game of VTES — that's just wrong. Put in place 2 hour time limits on games and the dynamics change. Pretty soon dull decks drop off the radar.

I was making an example with the times (yes 4 hours on 1 game of vtes is crazy, 2 games not so much, but oh well,) also I, and you, misinterpreted what you, and I, had to say. It felt like you just disliked the fact that one deck type will always stomp another to dust.
That's unavoidable unless you make every Clan do everything.
No, please, no.
(Thematically, though, a hard counter to your plans is a very real reality and you would enlist aid from another Methuselah, then eat him if all goes as planned...)

What I ment to say was for you to elaborate on your matched play idea.
I agree sometimes it gets frustrating to play in a locked up game, to loose before you start or to just take automatic, sad actions in your shitty turn, I also agree a "matched decks" approach is an awesome way to do things.

I think this approach, paired with a storyline type format would be awesome. Maybe a ladder style format with multi-decks? That could have some potential, but then it changes from a matched game to a ladder tourney.

I'm just trying to think of a way that this wouldn't become dull after playing each "matched set" of decks after 3 or 4 sets? Maybe a rotation of decks?

I disagree with a few of the points here, but that comes from personal experience and, I guess in the end, each of our personal preference.

In the end, this game is what we make it.
If it's not an event, nothing is keeping you from anything. Have fun with it and remember were all on the same team here. (But this is the webber-nets, so something will get misconstrued )

Make VTES an LCG in the model of Game of Thrones:
Roll out many of the existing cards under the new rules and more easily understood timing windows. Card limits would be good under a new game, much like they are in GoT (I.e. less rock, scissors, paper and more toolboxing, generally speaking)