Old players reluctance to play with post HttB cards

Ratadin wrote:

Luckily I think that the VTES community, while obviously related to WoD, is detached enough from everything that it will endure any kind of wall-hitting, even if Black Chantry were the one doing the hitting.

There was a time after Gehenna where requiem launched and the WoD was no more. Vtes was in its own alternate timeline, the ironic only "official " WW alternate timeline where the world didn't end. Pen and paper games ironically (from people I've talked to) utilized the setting as well, when angered at requiem and returning to vtm.

In the last but of irony, V20 utilized an alternative timeline where Gehenna had a false start, Ravnos Antideluvian got squashed, WoN happened, Gangrel were mostly out of the cam, with Assamites attempting to enter it. Basically the alternate timeline vtes occupied when new wod launched.

We survive Canon shifts.

Also, character controversy Paradox can deal with. V5 isn't as hard of a screw job as Requiem was, but tbh, hunger dice remind me hardcore of the frenzy check in vtr every time you met a new kindred. (Aka "meet the prince, frenzy, draft new character sheet"). But many ideas are strong with less than perfect implementation. They'll learn. We just need "canon" characters to copy and we count as a tie in. Playtest used Chicago by Night tie ins, so shouldn't be hard.

Play a game with them where you use the new cards. If they don't want to let you, organise more players.

I fall into their camp a bit. I'm excited to have VTES back in print and am happy with the Lost Kindred expansion from Black Chantry. Though I really do wonder if the PDF only sets are genuine.

I'll preface this with: Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I would like to learn. I always thought VEKN was only related to WW in a sort of fan club role. They managed the VTES fans and arranged their own events for them. It never felt like WW was directing things, just that they were ok with it happening out of convenience. So, from that, it absolutely comes across that the VEKN released PDF sets were fan made with no real authority to do so. The fact that they're free PDFs and not printed cards really adds to the amateurish appearance of it all.

What does it take to convince someone that they're genuine? I guess I don't understand where the reticence to use the PDF cards comes from.

kschaefer wrote:

What does it take to convince someone that they're genuine? I guess I don't understand where the reticence to use the PDF cards comes from.

Agreed.

I would like to hear 'genuity' elaborated on a bit more, if you would, 1uck.

When there was no commercial publisher, VEKN continued to maintain the TWDA, host forums, card lists and update both player register and tournament rankings.

With no one else out there, I think VEKN did a remarkable job.

Of course the .pdf sets are amateurish, but only in a sense that they were not professional. Professionality includes making money, which was the only 'amateur' thing here.

At the time, and at the moment as well, VEKN was actually the highest authority, if authorities are what you're looking for.

Furthermore, many feel that the power level and design on many VEKN designed cards are of better quality than WW era produced.

1uck wrote:

I fall into their camp a bit. I'm excited to have VTES back in print and am happy with the Lost Kindred expansion from Black Chantry. Though I really do wonder if the PDF only sets are genuine.

I'll preface this with: Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I would like to learn. I always thought VEKN was only related to WW in a sort of fan club role. They managed the VTES fans and arranged their own events for them. It never felt like WW was directing things, just that they were ok with it happening out of convenience. So, from that, it absolutely comes across that the VEKN released PDF sets were fan made with no real authority to do so. The fact that they're free PDFs and not printed cards really adds to the amateurish appearance of it all.

A rough history of the VEKN and how it relates to White Wolf:

During the Wizards era, the VEKN was originally two separate fan groups - the VEKN for players in Europe and the Madness Network for players in North America. The two groups eventually merged under the VEKN name. It was still a fan organization, with the official organization being the DCI under Wizards and L. Scott Johnson (aka LSJ) as their volunteer Rules Coordinator.

When Wizards cancelled the game, the VEKN remained as a fan organization and (I think) created its own rating system since they weren't part of the DCI anymore. LSJ remained as the Rules Coordinator for the game.

When (Atlanta) White Wolf re-published V:TES, they also took ownership of the VEKN. Company founders Steve and Stewart Wieck took turns as the VEKN Chairman and Oscar Garza was hired as the Organized Play Coordinator. (Chad Brown was in the mix, too, but I don't remember if he had an official role in the VEKN.) LSJ became the Lead Developer for V:TES and remained in his role in the VEKN as Rules Coordinator. Robyn Tatu was hired as the Ratings Coordinator.

White Wolf was later acquired by/merged with CCP and eventually CCP cancelled V:TES. The VEKN was given back to the fans, with LSJ, Oscar, and Robyn ending their time in their VEKN roles. A new VEKN board was created - the Inner Circle - with Johannes Walch as Chairman and Pascal Bertrand as Rules Coordinator. Under Johannes, the VEKN Design Team was created, with myself (Ben Peal) as Design Team Leader. Eventually Johannes stepped down as Chairman and Ginés Quiñonero was elected. Pascal Bertrand handed the Rules Coordinator reins to Vincent Ripoll.

Paradox Entertainment eventually acquired the White Wolf properties from CCP and spun off a new company, White Wolf Publishing, to manage those properties and publish them. I'll refer to them as (Stockholm) White Wolf. The VEKN remained as a fan organization and Dhaunae De Vir, Brand Manager for (Stockholm) White Wolf, was added to the Inner Circle in an advisory role.

This year, Black Chanty Publishing was founded by most of the members of the Inner Circle: Hugh Angseesing, Ginés Quiñonero, Henrik Klippstrom, Vincent Ripoll, and myself. BCP is a licensed partner of (Stockholm) White Wolf and is authorized to officially publish V:TES and create new sets for it. The VEKN has remained as a fan organization.

As for the authority or such of the VEKN sets, they were an initiative started by the VEKN Inner Circle after the game was cancelled by CCP. Among the goals were to keep the game alive in the minds of the players by releasing new material and to create a capable production team to show prospective companies that V:TES is a worthwhile game to publish. The legitimacy of the cards was backed by the VEKN player community for use in VEKN tournaments, and the VEKN had a verbal agreement with CCP to permit their creation and distribution.

Towards the end of 2016 through early 2017, the Design Team worked with (Stockholm) White Wolf and Participation Design Agency (a professional LARP company) to produce the Anthology Set for the World of Darkness: Berlin event. This set included reprints of cards published by (Atlanta) White Wolf, new cards that were a tie-in to the LARP events, and some of the cards from the VEKN sets. These were the first officially printed cards since (Atlanta) White Wolf/CCP cancelled the game.

The VEKN Design Team included myself, Ginés Quiñonero as the Art Director, and Vincent Ripoll as the Rules Director. Our roles with BCP are as Product Director, Art Director, and Rules Director, respectively:

www.blackchantry.com/about/

So, the very same people who were developing cards for the VEKN are publishing cards as an official, licensed partner of (Stockholm) White Wolf. BCP will eventually publish the VEKN sets in proper card form, probably starting with Danse Macabre. These sets remain official for use in tournament play in .pdf form, though the permitted use of printed .pdf cards will eventually end sometime after the cards are printed in proper card form.