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Why some new vampires have better design and some worse?
19 Aug 2024 10:57 - 19 Aug 2024 11:04 #112360
by Dthamilaye
Where is the topic for this?
What I checked TWDA, Earth Meld usage has surged a lot during the last 12 months and half the decks seem to be some version of Anarch Protean wall with Earth Meld. Clan is usually Gangrel, but Tzims and Followers of Set are also seen.
It seems that the current meta revolves around such decks as it clearly is pretty powerful.
Nothing anarchs have cost anything for this setup and the synergy is great. Bounces are free, wakes with intercept are free, combat ends with unlock are free and all of this is usable with any clan with protean, as long as they are anarcs, so you can choose whatever disciplines (or other bonuses) you want from the clan.
None of the cards in isolation are broken (though I would like BaS to cost 1 blood to keep in in synch with all other bounces), but when combined, the synergy with all of the cards is huge.
In addition to all of this, their crypts automatically contain 3 different 6-7 cap vampires with two votes each, so the political angle is working pretty great as well, as another free bonus.
Yes, Maneuver-Immortal Grapple-Disarm-Decapitate-prevent (vs the aggra poke they also have, in the same card with the maneuver, of course, and it is one of the few aggras that work when grappled, of course) does go through it. I'm just thinking is this already starting to be unhealthy?
Replied by Dthamilaye on topic Why some new vampires have better design and some worse?
Today Protean is a currency for power (that phenomenon and its effects are another topic).
Where is the topic for this?
What I checked TWDA, Earth Meld usage has surged a lot during the last 12 months and half the decks seem to be some version of Anarch Protean wall with Earth Meld. Clan is usually Gangrel, but Tzims and Followers of Set are also seen.
It seems that the current meta revolves around such decks as it clearly is pretty powerful.
Nothing anarchs have cost anything for this setup and the synergy is great. Bounces are free, wakes with intercept are free, combat ends with unlock are free and all of this is usable with any clan with protean, as long as they are anarcs, so you can choose whatever disciplines (or other bonuses) you want from the clan.
None of the cards in isolation are broken (though I would like BaS to cost 1 blood to keep in in synch with all other bounces), but when combined, the synergy with all of the cards is huge.
In addition to all of this, their crypts automatically contain 3 different 6-7 cap vampires with two votes each, so the political angle is working pretty great as well, as another free bonus.
Yes, Maneuver-Immortal Grapple-Disarm-Decapitate-prevent (vs the aggra poke they also have, in the same card with the maneuver, of course, and it is one of the few aggras that work when grappled, of course) does go through it. I'm just thinking is this already starting to be unhealthy?
Last edit: 19 Aug 2024 11:04 by Dthamilaye.
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19 Aug 2024 13:01 #112361
by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Why some new vampires have better design and some worse?
I dare suggest that you now build the cheesiest deck using this broken synergy and sweep through some tournaments like a hurricane!
Finnish Politics!
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19 Aug 2024 13:23 #112363
by Poci
Replied by Poci on topic Why some new vampires have better design and some worse?
It's pretty obvious that the only thing holding protean back from being the best support discipline was that it was locked onto one of the weakest clan(s) primarily, for around 25+ years; Gangrel and !Gangrel.
At the moment Anarch Gangrel (post-Kuyen), Ministry and later the Tzimisce came it instantly became problematic, since these clans either had their issues fixed (Anarch Gangrel), or had a premier ousting discipline (Dominate, Prescence), while also being anarchs, of course. Sure, cards like Form of the Bat are comparatively new (and great), but most of the protean cards existed, without issue, for decades.
The only thing that changed is that protean became in-clan for clans (or factions) that has good stuff already and having the best support discipline on top of those is great.
At the moment Anarch Gangrel (post-Kuyen), Ministry and later the Tzimisce came it instantly became problematic, since these clans either had their issues fixed (Anarch Gangrel), or had a premier ousting discipline (Dominate, Prescence), while also being anarchs, of course. Sure, cards like Form of the Bat are comparatively new (and great), but most of the protean cards existed, without issue, for decades.
The only thing that changed is that protean became in-clan for clans (or factions) that has good stuff already and having the best support discipline on top of those is great.
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19 Aug 2024 13:27 #112365
by Dthamilaye
Yeah, probably should .
And my "half of the decks" was not completely accurate. Out of the 50 latest winning decks, only 13-15 were such decks, so one-fourth to one-third of all winners.
Anyways, sorry for the hijack of the thread.
Replied by Dthamilaye on topic Why some new vampires have better design and some worse?
I dare suggest that you now build the cheesiest deck using this broken synergy and sweep through some tournaments like a hurricane!
Yeah, probably should .
And my "half of the decks" was not completely accurate. Out of the 50 latest winning decks, only 13-15 were such decks, so one-fourth to one-third of all winners.
Anyways, sorry for the hijack of the thread.
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20 Aug 2024 15:05 #112377
by Palamedes
Replied by Palamedes on topic Why some new vampires have better design and some worse?
Well, since some posts keep popping up here, I read my first post, and it's clear to me that it was written in personal frustration and anger that I didn't get what I've been hoping for for years, which is at least some decent Nosferatu vampire.
I don't know why the Nosferatu have to be so much worse than the others and in new meta even boring for casual play (which is the source of my rage), but it looks like I won't get a satisfying answer, and I have to accept that.
It is also clear to me that, although I'm not asking about Molly on purpose what happened in the playtest, the correct answer can only come by revealing the playtest. So I apologize.
Maybe the original post should simply be asking for suggestions and ideas on what to do with Molly, as I have no idea where she might be used.
Don't recommend me anything with Creeping Sabotage, please!
"Today Protean is a currency for power..."
I don't see protean itself as an overpowering discipline. The thing that currently makes clans with PRO overpowering is the combination of Baron + Organized Resistance + Bait and Switch. Protean is just the icing on the cake with few cards exclusively for Anarch. Camarilla and Independents with PRO are still doing the same, no difference compared to before.
I don't know why the Nosferatu have to be so much worse than the others and in new meta even boring for casual play (which is the source of my rage), but it looks like I won't get a satisfying answer, and I have to accept that.
It is also clear to me that, although I'm not asking about Molly on purpose what happened in the playtest, the correct answer can only come by revealing the playtest. So I apologize.
Maybe the original post should simply be asking for suggestions and ideas on what to do with Molly, as I have no idea where she might be used.
Don't recommend me anything with Creeping Sabotage, please!
"Today Protean is a currency for power..."
I don't see protean itself as an overpowering discipline. The thing that currently makes clans with PRO overpowering is the combination of Baron + Organized Resistance + Bait and Switch. Protean is just the icing on the cake with few cards exclusively for Anarch. Camarilla and Independents with PRO are still doing the same, no difference compared to before.
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