New set in 2012

Yes, the company who would be printing the cards would be violating copyright laws, and we would be the ones who made them do it.

Ofcouse the 1000 players here arent every player outthere, but truth be told, they are a huge part of why vekn eksists. I still meet players who dident even know the game have had a second rise, and no we arent making this for them. We are making this for the players who are attending vekn sanctioned tournements, there is _nothing_ wrong with you, or anyone else starting another player organization up, I wouldent recomend it, but noone stops anyone from doing that, making your own srt of rules. Heck you could make pto playable and ban villien if that what you want. As for now, I would suggest that you come to terms with the understanding that the game is dead in the companies eyes and only lives on as long as we, the players, make that happens.

/Jesper

talonz wrote:

I doubt that anymore than 3 of my players (including myself) even know this site exists. But all my players attend or did attend the local gamestore were we play.

So why are you keeping this website secret from them?

talonz wrote:

First make VEKN a not for profit organization, or registered club or what have you. Next, take dues, donations or contributions. Third, go print the cards! Then distribute as promo cards, at no cost to princes, to distribute amongst their player groups.

If the cards are given away, they cant stop us.

If you are so sure, I believe that the VEKN would welcome your not-for-profit organization taking the lead in collecting monies and printing cards, as well as you being able to fight the legal battles from Hasbro which are certain to ensue for patent violations.

talonz wrote:

Any holes in that?

Assuming you have the legal resources to fight Hasbro in court, none that I can see.

A couple things;

-i doubt the printer in china cares.
-i doubt hasbro cares.
-i doubt they would even know!

Anyways, VEKN is proposing to create and distribute, electronically, derivative works. Essentially isn't VEKN already breaking copyright law with the pdf intended for printout and use with the game?

How do basement authors get away with printing and distributing fan fiction for instance? How is this any different?

Is the difference the use of vampire and deckmaster trademarks on the cardbacks....? If so id say print them without that. Which would mark them, which people already accept apparently, so what is so different between them and all these easily marked cards people exclaim to be able to spot?

Honestly I think given the contact info and enough funds, we could print this set and nothing would happen. Even if hasbro noticed, and even if they cared, the worst we get is a cease and desist order?

So then someone somewhere else prints the next set....

talonz wrote:

At what point does vampire become unrecognizable due to a glut of pdf cards invented by joe blow the vtes fan?

Fun fact: This set is being designed by a group of extremely high-caliber, veteran VTES players. Many previous sets were designed by one guy who mostly didn't play the game.

I see that you really like the corporate authority backing previous sets, but from a purely pragmatic perspective, that legitimacy doesn't mean shit when it comes to card design. I thought that LSJ designed a lot of good cards, and a lot of funny bad cards, but insinuating that this new set is going to be bad because it's not designed by him is nonsensical. At least wait until you see it before you start bitching about the quality of its design.

Fun fact: This set is being designed by a group of extremely high-caliber, veteran VTES players. Many previous sets were designed by one guy who mostly didn't play the game.

I can guarantee you that being a good player doesn't make you a good designer. A good designer makes a reasonably good player. It's certainly true that Ira and whomever else moderates the card idea forum can suddenly end up as brilliant card designers, but them being good players in no way guarantees that.

At least wait until you see it before you start bitching about the quality of its design.

If you're not gettting criticized, that doesn't mean you're doing great. Talonz is just being vocal about things, but I know a few players in my area that also hate this new PDF set because they simply don't think VEKN is up for the job. They're just not saying it on these forum because they believe it's falling on deaf ears anyway. I personally hate the thing with PDF crap, but have just accepted it to happen, with the likely result of two of the three Dutch VTES communities disappearing. I can imagine the same thing happening in other countries.

I'm unconvinced VEKN has the player backup to make this a success, but at this point it just seems to be "let's get along with it and hope it works out".

That said, one thing that may be a factor is that it's actually not too common knowledge who is designing the cards and what authority they have. Ie, I feel VEKN might at the moment not have the community backup it needs to succeed.

(Take note that this is not my personal feeling towards VEKN as I think - other than the new set shit - they are doing a good enough job given the state the game is in)

As much as I appreciate the things VEKN is doing, there are a lot of things that should be done in addition if the community as a whole is to accept VEKN as the new WW/CCP.

Just some examples of things that are nibbling on VEKN´s credibility towards the community:

* There is still no announcement on the front page about a new set. All we have is a forum thread, not even started by a VEKN IC member and Johannes' announcement at the welcome party of the EC.
* There is still no new ranking system online yet. Supposedly it's "almost done" but it has been for months and the "real life" excuse and "volunteer" words have been coming up a lot. This may all be the case, but maybe at some point it's time to then step down and have someone else take over?
* The online rulebook still hasn't been formatted/linked as well as it was when WW hosted it. This is a minor nuisance, but Damnans promised to fix it close to 6 months ago "when he had the time". Again, if you don't have time to do VEKN volunteer work, don't do it and find someone else.
* Online presence. You're going to need to communicate with the fans. Update the website. Post announcements. And very importantly, don't get involved in heated forum discussion and don't pick sides in arguments.

The old UseNet group would regularly be full of discussions and bitching how WW was doing so bad with the website and updates and yet the EXACT SAME thing is happening here on VEKN. I understand that if you know Johannes, Eric or Gines personally you are fully confident in how things will end up going, but ya know, only a tiny percentage of the players know them.

Izaak wrote:

If you're not getting criticized, that doesn't mean you're doing great. Talonz is just being vocal about things, but I know a few players in my area that also hate this new PDF set because they simply don't think VEKN is up for the job.

How would they know if VEKN is "up for the job"???

Izaak wrote:

They're just not saying it on these forum because they believe it's falling on deaf ears anyway. I personally hate the thing with PDF crap, but have just accepted it to happen, with the likely result of two of the three Dutch VTES communities disappearing. I can imagine the same thing happening in other countries.

Why would the players' current decks in the Dutch community -- or ANY community -- suddenly become unplayable after a PDF set was printed? If they hate the idea of the PDF set so much then they don't have to play with it.

Izaak wrote:

I'm unconvinced VEKN has the player backup to make this a success, but at this point it just seems to be "let's get along with it and hope it works out".

Why are you unconvinced?

Izaak wrote:

That said, one thing that may be a factor is that it's actually not too common knowledge who is designing the cards and what authority they have. Ie, I feel VEKN might at the moment not have the community backup it needs to succeed.

What is your definition of success and/or "to succeed"?