First new products are available!

Something to keep in mind is which distribution format has the greatest appeal to new players.

Yes, opening randomized packs is very exciting, but I personally know too many players who have quit Magic precisely because it amounts to gambling and is an addictive money-sink. I think many players, particularly those here in the USA, are much more keen on buying a product that has all the features and components they expect it to have.

I think BloodArtist or SelfBiased once said that VTES is a board game masquerading as a card game. I think that's a good way to phrase it. The target demographic of VTES should be people who play board games, IMO. The people who play CCGs are 90% people who play MTG, and they don't show any interest in learning a new card game (or any other game in my experience) but the board gamers are willing.

self wrote:

Bla... bla ...

Furthermore, at a $4 price point per 11 pack, you're paying about 36 cents per card. The value offered for a 120 card 'pack' by black chantry sits at about 20 cents per card (before shipping).

Using overpriced at retail boosters as an argument for something is not a good way to go.

When I was playing mtg "kind of serious" we (players) quickly find a way to buy (15 card) boosters to practice drafts for $2. It's 13 c per card. The guy who sold them was still making profit, so he was getting boosters even cheaper - for $1,5 or even $1, do not know where.

Your math, which leads to 1200 cards I do not get.

Please, answer the question - how without random packs you are going to provide 400 card set to the casual players, who want just come to local game store, buy something cheaply and play, have fun and then see an easy way to develop collection/deck?

LivesByProxy wrote:

I think BloodArtist or SelfBiased once said that VTES is a board game masquerading as a card game. I think that's a good way to phrase it. The target demographic of VTES should be people who play board games, IMO. The people who play CCGs are 90% people who play MTG, and they don't show any interest in learning a new card game (or any other game in my experience) but the board gamers are willing.

Most serious VtES players I know earlier played mtg.
Boardgamers are used to spend $50 and have a complete game. Actually 75-80% of boardgamers are used to spend nothing and play games, bought by 20%

For 10c per card it's little more, than 1 copy of each card from a standard basic set. You can play with it, but it'll got nothing to do with VtES

Silmegil wrote:

From my personal view, I love boosters. I do not gamble IRL in any shape or point, no scratchies, betting or lottery, so boosters are my fix. True that I love drafts so much, that cube could be my fix, but for me its not the same - again, my personal feeling.

self wrote:

If your argument for random booster packs is "I find opening random packs to be fun."I enjoy gambling and understand that thrill.[/i]

This all touches on something I wish would be incorporated into VTES: gambling. If the CCG model of distribution is going to be scrapped, then something else needs to fill the "excitement void" left by not having booster packs to open.

I tried coming up with a variant where players would gamble money before the game started, like how players could ante a card in the old days, only the ante would be money. I even went as far as pre-building a series of "duel decks" that would match up evenly to see if gambling would also help two-player games be more exciting. So imagine a variant of VTES for 2 players using prebuilt decks to ensure an even matchup, where players would ante money to add excitement. It worked very well except for one thing: superior Govern (and other similar effects) allowing a player to move blood to an uncontrolled vampire, with the restriction that the vampire be younger. Well, with no way for the opposing player to see uncontrolled vampires, there was no way to enforce that restriction. And therefore, there was no way to check if someone was cheating, which would be a big deal if money were on the line. So I’m unsure if this variant can really work. I wish it did, because 2-player VTES is very underrated, especially in the context of prebuilt decks that interact well, and this variant made it easier to teach people a simpler version of the game. And gambling money is fun.

But, point being, if the CCG model is going bye bye (as it definitely should), I do feel something else needs to be incorporated to add excitement lost from the loss of randomized booster packs.

No.

Just, no.

Play the game. It's exciting.

Real-money gambling aspect is the worst idea for this game I've heard in a long time, sorry. Just no.

As for "random is exciting"... meh. I think the frustration of getting N+1 copies of a useless card while trying to get a few copies of the card you need for your decks overrides that excitement. And also, I hate hate hate rare cards that you suddenly need 8+ copies of in order to build a certain deck. So good riddance to random & rarity, in my opinion.

As for new players: maybe the guys will introduce ready-to-play starter decks again at some point. Or this-is-all-you-need-to-play starter kits.