New vampire: Lord Leopold Valemar, Lasombra Priscus

is certainly better than but it suffers from a problem similar to in that it's a support discipline more often than an oust mechanism and it more often than not costs blood.

AotA is great, more efficient than even cards, which is ironic since dodging AND additional strikes are a thing but Dust Up is the only card celerity gets that doesn't cost blood for the effect of AotA.
Entombment is the most efficient strike to send a vamp to torpor. Prevent doesn't avoid it, it kills imbued, it's cheaper than Coma, and often follows AotA.

doesn't help Lasombra much. To use potence, you're getting into combat. If you're getting into combat with you're hitting up close, probably grappling. If you're playing grapple combat, you should either be playing damage prevention or using smaller vamps, since tasting alone doesn't always keep you where you should be.

In fluff, has 2 different ways to prevent damage simply by using shadows as armor. That made into a card would add utility.

But right now, has AotA, Entombment for good offense. They have 2 S:CE that cost blood and mimic other sce additional effects. They have overcosted ranged junk strikes. They have one environmental blood stealer and Dark steel.

I'm not saying that is useless, but summoning prehensile tendrils of solid shadows have greater utility than vtes has given the discipline. Dark Steel is a step in the right direction, but they need a way to prevent damage.

Also, needs vote helping cards. has push and voter cap, nothing else can be more broken than VC, and it would give Lasombra more viability in voting.

In order for Potence to get effects other than punching people, we have to abstract it or make it metaphorical and/or put it with another discilpine i.e. dual discipline cards.

So what does a metaphorical card look like? I'm not sure.

Lech wrote: I even mentioned black meta, point is both are pointless and bad.

In a vacuum, I generally agree. For a vampire who has a built-in superior Theft of Vitae? Both start looking a lot better.

Klaital wrote: Mewcat kind of comes out as someone who only plays stuff like weenie dem, since he is basically bashing everything, and thinks it's impossible to win with anything except the (subjective) 'best' thing.

I'm going to go ahead and tell you just how wrong you are. Mewcat plays more off-the-wall vampires and strategies than anyone I've seen, and he plays constantly on Lackey. I haven't seen him play a straight-forward stealth bleed deck *EVER*, and I've been playing the game with him since 2002.

So, he plays more games than most people and tries to use stuff that doesn't work on purpose to see how to make it work. Meanwhile, people who play a tournament game every few months want to come here and talk about how good Chimerstry is? Or Obtenebration? Bunch of armchair quarterbacks who are more interested in fluff than understanding how the game actually works.

I get that a community is a combination of try-hards and casuals, but holy shit if this forum isn't frustrating.

Obtenebration is objectively bad. It costs too much and the comparable effects in other disciplines is better. It's paired with dominate which is why people win with it.

Maybe, but you can't compare discplines in a vacuum, especially ones like these that are predominantly only part of one clan, you have to think of the whole clan discpline package as a whole. Like for example, Serpentis might not be an all star discpline, but it also comes with obf/pre, and augments those nicely, same as how you mentioned yourself that Obtenebration always comes with Dominate. Chimerstry though is a great discpline even on it's own, you can do literally anything with it, I have made successful Ravnos decks ranging from stealth bleed to combat walls. It's only drawback is that it's blood intensive, but Ravnos have tons of ways to manage that.

DJHedgehog wrote:

Klaital wrote: Mewcat kind of comes out as someone who only plays stuff like weenie dem, since he is basically bashing everything, and thinks it's impossible to win with anything except the (subjective) 'best' thing.

I'm going to go ahead and tell you just how wrong you are. Mewcat plays more off-the-wall vampires and strategies than anyone I've seen, and he plays constantly on Lackey. I haven't seen him play a straight-forward stealth bleed deck *EVER*, and I've been playing the game with him since 2002.

So, he plays more games than most people and tries to use stuff that doesn't work on purpose to see how to make it work. Meanwhile, people who play a tournament game every few months want to come here and talk about how good Chimerstry is? Or Obtenebration? Bunch of armchair quarterbacks who are more interested in fluff than understanding how the game actually works.

I get that a community is a combination of try-hards and casuals, but holy shit if this forum isn't frustrating.

Obtenebration is objectively bad. It costs too much and the comparable effects in other disciplines is better. It's paired with dominate which is why people win with it.

I have played stealth bleed a few times over the years but really what is there to remember? I bled for more than one ... At stealth.