file New vampire: Lord Leopold Valemar, Lasombra Priscus

18 Jan 2019 13:33 - 18 Jan 2019 13:42 #93013 by DJHedgehog

-Ben is a great player, but not all of his entries would i consider “ground breaking” from a deck building perspective. Darby is a force unto himself, and you could do a study of his table manipulation from an emotional standpoint without even looking at deck contents.

Okiedoke. The point at which Ben and Darby aren't True Enough Scotsman w/r/t building original decks that are very strong and generally don't rely on the power cards that you claim are the fulcrum for success is the point at which we part ways in terms of being able to have an interesting conversation.

I didn't say anything about not building original decks. Look at the quote. Not all of Ben's decks are groundbreaking. He's like 50/50 well piloted schlock and powerful established cards and strategies. My point about smaller tournament sizes still stands when you look at his record. Sure he won with Obeso, but it was a 13 player tournament. Besides that fact, he's a great player which can put a lot of "W"'s in the column, especially considering the average VTES player isn't great.

Last 5 wins:
Emerald Legionnaires (13 Players)
Obeso (13 Players)
Samedi Stealth Bleed (38 Players)
Kiasyd Stealth Bleed (27 Players)
Nana Bukaro MMA Animalism Combat (10 Players)

4/5 of those decks are super straight forward decks that any reasonable player could win with. That's not a strike against Ben- he clearly knows what things are viable and plays them well.

My comment about Darby was confirming your statement. Darby plays almost exclusively schlock and is successful with it. My response was a theory as to how he may accomplish this, and I stand by it. He is a great player from a "table win" perspective, and that's special because most players can't see past their first VP. He's a great player from a table talk and emotional standpoint, which basically causes other players to make sub-optimal plays.

I respect Darby's ability in game and in deck building, but he is the exception and not the rule. To throw him out as a reason why below-average cards should exist is a logical fallacy.
Last edit: 18 Jan 2019 13:42 by DJHedgehog.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lech

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18 Jan 2019 13:40 #93014 by Kraus
Everyone, this will not fly.

See Forum Guidelines under Language and register and Argumentation and discussion.

This discussion has been on the edge for a while now on civility, on all sides of the arguments.

Keep this in mind from now on. The rules are there for a reason.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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18 Jan 2019 14:04 #93015 by Mewcat
Yeah, it's ran it's course.

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18 Jan 2019 14:55 #93017 by Klaital
Something that people seem to forget here is that unlike say M:tG, V:tES is NOT a one vs one game, it's played at 5 player tables, and someone who is good at table talking can win with a starter deck, and playing too 'good' deck can often result in the entire table ganging up on you, and no matter how good your deck is, chances are it's not going to be able to survive that. Further, lot of the time, slightly worse card will effectively achieve the exact same thing as a better version of the card in another discpline. Like for example, is Lost in Crowds better than Shadow Play? Yes, it is, does that matter most of the time? No, it doesn't, because both get the job done just as well. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a dom/obf crypt that is nearly as efficient with titled vampires as dom/obt, and yes, I know, Arika exists, but her support vampires are not exactly optimal. In additon, you can also do other things with Lasombra, like dom/pot bruise bleed, or obt/pot rush.

Also, since it seems like some people haven't realized it, bloodlines, especially the scarce ones, intentionally have more powerful cards to compensate for the fact they have lot more limited crypt options.That's intentional design, not an accident.

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