file Archeology: Jyhad combat as it can be reconstructed from present time

04 Jun 2018 14:14 #87901 by elotar

Anyway, here are my theories on how these errors were introduced at the proofing stage:

Blood Rage: the proofreader saw the word "fortitude" in the card text and changed the symbol.

Concealed Weapon: The proofreader confused this card with the similarly titled Disguised Weapon and added the Obfuscate symbol.

Venture Justicar: Either nobody proofread this card, or these errors were introduced at a later stage in production.


For Ventrue Justicar, I think, it's just "cntr-C / V" error - when templates of cards were copy-pasted somebody forgot to change clan name.

Concealed Weapon looked very much like a misprint, except in VtES (initial set) it was not fixed, but dropped. As it's a key card for weapon strategies either it was intentional all along (or actually introduced as a disciplineless card, then deemed "too good", but as a printing materials was already made, "fixed" by adding "little black box"), or as other quite plausible explanation - guys responsible for the game at Jyhad -> VtES transition totally lost grasp of original intent.

About Blood Rage/Fury may be I'm really overthinking. ;) It may be just then when Wake was moved to disciplineless they quickly need something to fill the gap at :tha: and then fucked up discipline requirements. Still do not see any need for two such cards, so :

Anti weapon cards

Blood Fury
Requires: Thaumaturgy
Only usable at close range.
[tha] Strike: 1 damage. Cannot be prevented. If the opposing vampire attempts to strike with a weapon this round, he or she does no damage.
[THA] As above, but 2 damage.

Canine Horde
Requires: Animalism
[ani] Strike: 1R damage.
[ANI] Strike: ranged; destroy equipment with first strike.

Fast Hands
Requires: Celerity
Cost: 1 blood
[cel] Strike: steal weapon.
[CEL] Strike: steal weapon with first strike.

Shattering Blow
Requires: Potence
[pot] Strike: destroy equipment.
[POT] Strike: destroy equipment with first strike.

So looks kind of balanced.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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04 Jun 2018 15:05 #87902 by elotar
And finally I think I've understood IG/Psyche "story"!

Which makes initial idea slightly wrong: IG/Psyche was not introduced as a means to fight SCE - they were there all along, their uses just was supposed to be different, no way intended as a key combat effects.

Psyche was intended as a "super press" in the logic of :cel: being specialized in them.

IG was the same as printed, just, as initial range was long and SCE was only in :pro:, against which you do not want to go to close, it was "for the lulz" card. That's why nobody bothered to write length of the "grapple effect" - you should spend maneuver to go close, IG, then something to deal damage - if the combat will go into the third round without the second IG then you will need to spend two more cards (press + maneuver) to just be close... Looks extremely rare occurrence.

So actually we was very lucky, that there were cards which can beat SCE in the initial set.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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04 Jun 2018 15:35 #87904 by LivesByProxy


Concealed Weapon: The proofreader confused this card with the similarly titled Disguised Weapon and added the Obfuscate symbol.

Concealed Weapon looked very much like a misprint, except in VtES (initial set) it was not fixed, but dropped. As it's a key card for weapon strategies either it was intentional all along (or actually introduced as a disciplineless card, then deemed "too good", but as a printing materials was already made, "fixed" by adding "little black box"), or as other quite plausible explanation - guys responsible for the game at Jyhad -> VtES transition totally lost grasp of original intent.


Here's my story for what I think happened.

Concealed Weapon was originally Disguised Weapon in the early stages, but they thought Disguised Weapon (being strictly better than Concealed Weapon) was too strong, so they changed Disguised to Concealed, adding the drawbacks / limitations that Concealed has today. That's why Concealed Weapon required Obfuscate - it was the direct descendant of Disguised Weapon. Disguised evolved over a couple of playtests into Concealed when they realized it was too good. But somewhere along the way, they forgot to delete Disguised Weapon from their files (or whatever) and so both Disguised & Concealed Weapon made it into the 1st set - Jyhad. Disguised Weapon was never suppose to be printed. Concealed Weapon was suppose to be a "nerfed" / fixed Disguised Weapon, that's why it had the Obfuscate symbol. Obfuscate symbol got removed from Concealed Weapon in later sets because designers wanted to enable celerity gun decks.

My logic is infallible. :lol: :side: :P ;) :silly: B)

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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04 Jun 2018 17:46 #87909 by elotar


My logic is infallible.


If they change card text they leave name as is. ;)

Concealed / Disguised was fully in the logic, that most basic discipline effect got limited analogue in disciplineless cards.

Suddenly except "prevent one damage".

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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05 Jun 2018 08:18 #87942 by Lönkka

Venture Justicar: Either nobody proofread this card, or these errors were introduced at a later stage in production.

Probably the texts for all the Justicar cards were copied and pasted and in this one they just forgot to change the clan. So it was obviously a proofreading problem.

So, in my theory, it was not the designers who fucked anything up, it was the proofreader (who obviously was not a very good proofreader if these types of errors were being introduced).


Yup.
I'm suremost of these fall into the domain of proofreader effing it up.
Like Renage Garou and Renegade Garou etc


Jyhad Blood Rage was identified/admitted as misprint already in the very early years. No need to construct elaborate conspiracy theories how it came to pass...

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05 Jun 2018 13:06 - 05 Jun 2018 13:06 #87950 by TwoRazorReign

For Ventrue Justicar, I think, it's just "cntr-C / V" error - when templates of cards were copy-pasted somebody forgot to change clan name.


A proofreader would catch a copy/paste error. That Venture Justicar was printed with such glaring errors tells me that the QA process (ie, proofreading) was not a very rigourous one with Jyhad. Hence, my theory that most of the misprints were just simple proofreading errors.

Concealed Weapon looked very much like a misprint, except in VtES (initial set) it was not fixed, but dropped. As it's a key card for weapon strategies either it was intentional all along (or actually introduced as a disciplineless card, then deemed "too good", but as a printing materials was already made, "fixed" by adding "little black box"), or as other quite plausible explanation - guys responsible for the game at Jyhad -> VtES transition totally lost grasp of original intent.


Concealed Weapon has been confirmed to be a misprint . It was not printed in VTES to simply make room for the new cards in that set.

About Blood Rage/Fury may be I'm really overthinking. ;) It may be just then when Wake was moved to disciplineless they quickly need something to fill the gap at :tha: and then fucked up discipline requirements


I really think you are overthinking this. Blood Fury has the word "fortitude" on it. I can tell you that a common mistake among inexperienced proofreaders is making rash decisions in the context of a looming deadline, where there is no time to research the ramifications of their decisions. Think of a person getting proofs of 437 cards to read against the original text files to ensure the printed card matches the files provided, with barely any time to do it, while the lead designer is hiding out somewhere. The inexperienced proofreader is likely thinking, "Oh my gosh, this card says fortitude, but has the Thaumaturgy discipline symbol. I need to ask, but can't find anybody. And I have to have all this done in an hour. I'm going to change it because this looks like a huge error." I have seen this scenario happen many, many times. All the errors in Jyhad (and there are many of them) have the stink of this scenario all over them.
Last edit: 05 Jun 2018 13:06 by TwoRazorReign.

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