Proxy Comunity

Honestly, if your whole play group is in agreement about the use of proxies, and assuming that it isn't a qualifier or a tournament that somehow impacted other play groups, I don't see any reason why the VEKN would ever need to know that you were allowing the use of proxies. If they help keep your playgroup alive, and help keep interest in the game alive, then more power to you! In my humble opinion, of course.

brettscho wrote:

Honestly, if your whole play group is in agreement about the use of proxies, and assuming that it isn't a qualifier or a tournament that somehow impacted other play groups, I don't see any reason why the VEKN would ever need to know that you were allowing the use of proxies.

The VEKN has no interest in non-VEKN games, that's correct.

KevinM wrote:

The VEKN has no interest in non-VEKN games, that's correct.

To say that VEKN has no interest in non-VEKN games is a pretty short sighted viewpoint.

Encouraging players to play by tournament rules in non-VEKN games would improve the consistency between casual play and competitive play.

I've seen entirely too many VEKN representatives posting about how VEKN doesn't care what players do outside of VEKN sanctioned games. It's snide and diversive. While it is true that VEKN as an organization does not care about non-VEKN gameplay, the people that make up VEKN (organizers, volunteers and members) make up a community.

The forums on the VEKN website goes well beyond the discussion of VEKN. It includes the discussion of V:tES (yes, it may seem odd, but VEKN and V:tES are two separate things!). VEKN also encourages commerce, with a section on trading cards. VEKN also has a place to discuss playing VETS online (which may or may not infringe on copywrite!)

This issue of proxies has come up before, and it will continue to come up. The discussion of this topic need not be stifled every time it comes up.

As far as the inclusion of proxies: There is a legal component that can't be avoided. The text and artwork are copywrite protected. Reproducing the text and art for tournament play under the auspices of an organization puts said organization liable for encouraging copywrite infringement.

direwolf wrote:

KevinM wrote:

The VEKN has no interest in non-VEKN games, that's correct.

To say that VEKN has no interest in non-VEKN games is a pretty short sighted viewpoint. Encouraging players to play by tournament rules in non-VEKN games would improve the consistency between casual play and competitive play.

I completely agree. And how do you propose that the VEKN do that, to officially suggest how players play in their non-tournament games?

direwolf wrote:

I've seen entirely too many VEKN representatives posting about how VEKN doesn't care what players do outside of VEKN sanctioned games. It's snide and diversive.

First, I'm not a VEKN representative, and second, assuming you were talking about me, how do you get snide and divisive from a one-line comment with a smiley face on it? Or, if you were talking about someone else, what did they say that you interpreted as snide and divisive?

direwolf wrote:

While it is true that VEKN as an organization does not care about non-VEKN gameplay,

I'm glad that we agree.

direwolf wrote:

the people that make up VEKN (organizers, volunteers and members) make up a community.

How does that fact change the VEKN from a group that you agree doesn't care about non-tournament play to a group that you think should care and say and/or do something official in regards to non-tournament play???

direwolf wrote:

The forums on the VEKN website goes well beyond the discussion of VEKN. It includes the discussion of V:tES (yes, it may seem odd, but VEKN and V:tES are two separate things!).

Surely you see that VEKN is a subset of VTES?

direwolf wrote:

VEKN also encourages commerce, with a section on trading cards.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say the fact that a "trading" forum exists means that trading is encouraged. I'd say instead that it's more like a parking lot -- the space is provided by the management because there's an expectation from the customers that it'll be there, and what happens there is neither policed nor protected by the management.

direwolf wrote:

VEKN also has a place to discuss playing VTES online (which may or may not infringe on copywrite!)

JOL received the authorization from CCP both to operate and to collect operating expenses. I know nothing about the other two websites.

direwolf wrote:

This issue of proxies has come up before, and it will continue to come up. The discussion of this topic need not be stifled every time it comes up.

I'm not sure how you come to this opinion, but no one is stifling any discussion here.

direwolf wrote:

As far as the inclusion of proxies: There is a legal component that can't be avoided. The text and artwork are copywrite protected. Reproducing the text and art for tournament play under the auspices of an organization puts said organization liable for encouraging copywrite infringement.

And what legal research have you done to know this for certain? Perhaps you have another example of a completely dead CCG, with no manufacturer product left to sell, having sold it all to third-parties and emptied their warehouses, that has filed an injunction or a lawsuit to stop proxies from being used? I await your reply.

I completely agree. And how do you propose that the VEKN do that, to officially suggest how players play in their non-tournament games?

In reality, VEKN already does. It's just not explicit. Players come to VEKN for card rulings all the time having to do with non VEKN games. I don't see anyone saying, "Oh, that wasn't in a VEKN tournament, so we don't care if your playgroup let Sheldon play Cloak the Gathering while in torpor."

First, I'm not a VEKN representative,

You are a moderator on these forums.

assuming you were talking about me, how do you get snide and divisive from a one-line comment with a smiley face on it? Or, if you were talking about someone else, what did they say that you interpreted as snide and divisive?

Perhaps you weren't being snide. But I saw no reason to post said statement and interpreted it as snide and confrontational. If that is not the case, I apologize.

How does that fact change the VEKN from a group that you agree doesn't care about non-tournament play to a group that you think should care and say and/or do something official in regards to non-tournament play???

Maybe VEKN should care?

JOL received the authorization from CCP both to operate and to collect operating expenses. I know nothing about the other two websites.

That is pretty cool, I did not know that

I'm not sure how you come to this opinion, but no one is stifling any discussion here.

Once again, it is my interpretation that your allegedly snide comment was stifling.

And what legal research have you done to know this for certain? Perhaps you have another example of a completely dead CCG, with no manufacturer product left to sell, having sold it all to third-parties and emptied their warehouses, that has filed an injunction or a lawsuit to stop proxies from being used? I await your reply.

My statement was based on the assumption that VEKN as an organization was interested in covering its ass should someone decide to sue. There isn't a lot (if any) money involved. VEKN doesn't collect dues or charge admission or sell any goods or services. But that means there isn't any money to mount a defense against someone like this asshole .

It takes like 35 years for the rights to artwork to revert back to the artist. So, when I retire and my vampire cards have long fallen into the ocean after "the big earthquake" and Anson Maddocks sues VEKN to remove his images from use in V:tES proxies, I am going to have to use this as a proxie:

direwolf wrote:

But that means there isn't any money to mount a defense against someone like this asshole .

Wow. What a complete, total ass. I bet he sees himself as an evil genius of some kind. The M of his middle name must stand for "Majornuisance"