file Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?

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Poll: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often? (was ended 0000-00-00 00:00:00)

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25 Oct 2012 08:43 #39753 by er-principe

And that certain cards (such as AT) just make that slow general play even slower is another fact, not opinion - deying such a thing is denying evidence


What evidence are you referring to? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but your personal experience or opinion is not evidence by any means.

Does the third Ashur Tablet take a longer time to resolve than the third Villein? Well, sure, it will likely do so.


Yes indeed it will do so, and that's in fact an evidence that the resolution certain cards (such AT) actually slow utterly the already slow style of play of many players, contributing to the problem of timeouts of games nowadays (AT is also pool regain in this respect)

Emiliano
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25 Oct 2012 10:18 #39757 by Izaak
I don't see the evidence still, really. What I see is your opinion, stated as fact and conclusions that have no basis.

By your logic KRC also slows down the game to a snail's pace because there needs a vote to be done and sometimes splits needs to be negotiated. Of course, decent players vote fast and negotiate splits in under 30 seconds so it's usually not an issue. Just as resolving a third Ashur Tablets is never a problem when someone that's not mentally handicapped does it.

Poor players taking forever to decide how to offer Kine splits is not a problem with card, but with the players. Just as people taking ages to resolve something as trivial as a third Ashur Tablets. Again that is a problem with the players and not with the card.

Judges should be stepping in and make people move. Be it Ashur Tablets, DI's, Parity Shifts or even wakes for all I care. The issue at hand is that they are (mostly) not doing that and therefore the game is being slowed down to the point of being unenjoyable.
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25 Oct 2012 11:47 - 25 Oct 2012 11:49 #39758 by er-principe

I don't see the evidence still, really. What I see is your opinion, stated as fact and conclusions that have no basis.

By your logic KRC also slows down the game to a snail's pace because there needs a vote to be done and sometimes splits needs to be negotiated.


Political is negotation, so table interaction, sure it can pose another kind
of slowness problem but on another different level (negotiation slowness)
But cards such AT (or, say, the imbued mechanics with high amount of permanent in the game and long phases to be done without interactions) are no interaction at all, they're sort of autistical mechanics which, as said, just lead toward utter slowness of play

Emiliano
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Last edit: 25 Oct 2012 11:49 by er-principe.
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25 Oct 2012 12:03 #39760 by Izaak
When I have zero votes, I have no interaction with a kine. When I'm one of the targets of the kine, I have no interaction. There is absolutely no difference here.

In fact, one could argue that BECAUSE there is no interaction, Ashur Tablets should resolve fast because nobody can do a fuck about it once the third one hits the table. Ya know, like resolving a Villein isn't very hard either.

If some nitwit is taking forever to complete their Ashur cycle they should be told to speed things the hell up because they're stalling. If judges (or other players) don't have the balls to tell them then either it's not a problem, or they need to man the fuck up and start being actual judges.

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25 Oct 2012 12:53 - 25 Oct 2012 13:00 #39762 by Reyda

When I have zero votes, I have no interaction with a kine. When I'm one of the targets of the kine, I have no interaction. There is absolutely no difference here.

not true.
you can ask for the remaining damage point not being put on you, because you can provide compensation (blood from owain, let the pb montreal go, deal a rush etc... )

Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Last edit: 25 Oct 2012 13:00 by Reyda.

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25 Oct 2012 13:17 #39763 by Ohlmann
Well, if you want to nitpick, extremely few action can't be negociated.

If my prey hesitate between defense (redirection, rush, combat), or offense (stealth, bleed), there is something that can be negociated. If my prey want to villein for a lot, I can try to convince him that keeping blood on vampire for ousting my grandprey is better than turtling.

Izaak believe all thoses decisions can be done quickly enough in the current card pool, while nc-italy think some card take too much time to be resolved by design.

The only thing I will say on the topic is, the less serious and concentrated people will be, the more likely they are to take forever to divide KRC or use Ashur. And there is people that use tournament as social gathering and consequently are less than perfectly concentrated, leading to slow play. Aggressively handing out warning for that mean tournament will be less friendly for them and more for competitive player.

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