Byzar and Carlton van Wyk

About the successful/unsuccessful diablerie: isn't it a lot like bleed? Even if Byzar does not burn , it is still a successful action, so we need a separate definition of a successful diablerie.

While we're on this topic, one thing that I was always puzzled by was the interaction between Reform Body and Crimson Fury.

If you are successfully diablerized and play Crimson Fury at superior, you only need to play one Reform Body to not get burned. I always thought it was more intuitive than the successful diablerie would burn you once and the Crimson Fury effect would burn you a second time, so you would need two Reform Bodies. Maybe someone can explain this one to me?

Speaking of, which let's bring Byzar into the equation:

1. Byzar is in torpor and a diablerie action is targeting him. He plays superior Crimson Fury. How many burn counters does he get?

2. Byzar is diablerizing a vampire in torpor who plays superior Crimson Fury. Is there still a blood hunt referendum after he receives a burn counter from Crimson Fury?

I always thought the non-chaining of Dual Form burning was always non-intuitive as well! Maybe someone could eloquently explain that one too!

Crimson Fury/Reform Body: I guess that burning the acting vampire ends the action so you don't resolve the diablerie (even if it is considered successful)?

echiang wrote:

While we're on this topic, one thing that I was always puzzled by was the interaction between Reform Body and Crimson Fury.

Crimson Fury
Type: Reaction/Combat
Requires: Animalism
Cost: 1 blood
Only usable when this vampire is being diablerized. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable by a vampire in torpor.
[ani] The diablerie is canceled and the diablerist burns 1 blood.
[ANI] Burn both the diablerist and this vampire. (The diablerie is still considered successful.)

Reform Body
Type: Combat/Reaction
Requires: Vicissitude
[vic] Only usable by a vampire being burned; he or she is sent into torpor instead. Usable by a vampire in torpor. Usable by a tapped vampire.
[VIC] As above, and this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank.

If you are successfully diablerized and play Crimson Fury at superior, you only need to play one Reform Body to not get burned. I always thought it was more intuitive than the successful diablerie would burn you once and the Crimson Fury effect would burn you a second time, so you would need two Reform Bodies. Maybe someone can explain this one to me?

From Crimson Fury there is the "is being diablerised" which using the rulings about "is being bled" would mean that "is being diablerised" should be read as "{would be} diablerised". So the diablerie has not yet occurred but will occur. So playing Crimson Fury @ would burn both vampires before the diablerie would be completed. Therefore, while the diablerie is considered successful, it didn't actually occur (both vampires exploded before the action resolved) and therefore you only need to play one Reform Body (to counteract the burning caused by Crimson Fury).

Speaking of, which let's bring Byzar into the equation:

1. Byzar is in torpor and a diablerie action is targeting him. He plays superior Crimson Fury. How many burn counters does he get?

I would say 2 counters. 1 from Crimson. 1 from the Successful Diablerie.

2. Byzar is diablerizing a vampire in torpor who plays superior Crimson Fury. Is there still a blood hunt referendum after he receives a burn counter from Crimson Fury?

Yes, the diablerie is still successful, it's just that Byzar has a counter and is in torpor.

I always thought the non-chaining of Dual Form burning was always non-intuitive as well! Maybe someone could eloquently explain that one too!

Please enlighten the rest of us to that Dual Form chain?

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

echiang wrote:

Speaking of, which let's bring Byzar into the equation:

1. Byzar is in torpor and a diablerie action is targeting him. He plays superior Crimson Fury. How many burn counters does he get?

I would say 2 counters. 1 from Crimson. 1 from the Successful Diablerie.

How do you obtain two different answers for Byzar and for Reform Body?

echiang wrote:

2. Byzar is diablerizing a vampire in torpor who plays superior Crimson Fury. Is there still a blood hunt referendum after he receives a burn counter from Crimson Fury?

Yes, the diablerie is still successful, it's just that Byzar has a counter and is in torpor.

Even if he does not burn, he still goes to torpor, which ends the action. Is there time for a blood hunt?

@Boris:
Byzar + Crimson
Sorry, misread oen of the bits on Reform Body.

Bloodhunt in Torpor
The action hasn't finished resolution (it is a successful diablerie) so the remainder of the diablerie resolves, which includes a bloodhunt on Byzar. It isn't relevant that he is in torpor, he can still be the subject of a Bloodhunt Referendum.