Window After a Blood hunt?

The topic came up in JOL chat today. The original question regarded Mr. Noir playing Amaranth and burning in the resulting blood hunt (i.e. does his controller gain 2 pool). Someone linked some old LSJ rulings, which indicate that his ability would not trigger:
newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/2006-08/msg00530.html




As for the rules, here are all rules and rulings on the VEKN site I've found:

By the rules, as written, things are vague. The problem with the clarifying rulings is that, as far as I can tell, they would prevent the play of at least one card EVER. Lay Low, under those rulings, literally has no window in which to be played. Reform Bocy, which would get played in the same window is explicitly mentioned as unplayable: groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/4780ab690dbc5fd8

So, I guess I'm asking for a fresh ruling that takes reconciles existing cards with the rules. I hope this is the place to do so.

Cheers,
Sonam

Edit: Curses, Spoiler doesn't hide the text on this board

Malcolm wrote:

By the rules, as written, things are vague. The problem with the clarifying rulings is that, as far as I can tell, they would prevent the play of at least one card EVER. Lay Low, under those rulings, literally has no window in which to be played.

Lay Low has specific text requiring it to be played in that window, so it contradicts the rules on minion cards and blood hunts, by the Golden Rule of Cards.

Reform Body's text doesn't contradict the normal rules, so it can't be played.

I don't really think the Golden Rule applies here. Take Rewind Time as an example ( a card which would otherwise break the rules, except for the golden rule):
" Usable by a ready, untapped vampire even though there is no action. Cancel a non-out-of-turn master card as it is played during any other Methuselah's master phase (no cost is paid). The Methuselah who played that card gains another master phase action."

Rewind time explicitly grants an exception, thus invoking the Golden Rule. Lay low, on the other hand, has no such wording:
"Only usable when a blood hunt referendum passes and would burn this anarch. Move this anarch to the uncontrolled region (breaking any temporary control effects). Any cards and counters on this vampire remain with him or her (but are out of play as long as the vampire remains uncontrolled)."

Emphasis is mine, but Rewind time is very clear in it's invocation of the Golden Rule. Lay Low isn't and has no wording beyond that of any other card laying out it's play restrictions. It is not explicitly calling on the Golden Rule.

As for Reform Body... it's text DOES contradict the normal rules:
"[vic] Only usable by a vampire being burned; he or she is sent into torpor instead. Usable by a vampire in torpor. =(Usable by a tapped vampire.)="
The obvious intention of the two listed exceptions was to allow a vampire to come back from diablerie.

So yah... if the golden rule applies, it's not clear cut.

Malcolm wrote:

I don't really think the Golden Rule applies here.

Incorrect.

Legacy of Power, for example, is played during combat. It does not have explicit text saying "Playable during combat, even though reaction cards can't normally be played in combat" - but its timing text prevents any other interpretation under the current rules. So it's playable.

Winged Second is also played in combat, following the same text. It also lacks "Playable in combat, even though this is a reaction card" text.

So it is with Lay Low.

Malcolm wrote:

Take Rewind Time as an example

Sure, I'll I use it as an example of "Some cards are drafted more explicitly than others."

Malcolm wrote:

As for Reform Body... it's text DOES contradict the normal rules:
"[vic] Only usable by a vampire being burned; he or she is sent into torpor instead. Usable by a vampire in torpor. =(Usable by a tapped vampire.)="

Sure, it contradicts some other rules. But it doesn't explicitly contradict the rules about reactions and blood hunts, nor is it only playable at such a time (thus necessitating it).


If your argument is: Reform Body can be played in response to a Blood Hunt because it lacks any text overriding the normal restrictions, but Lay Low can't be played in response to a Blood Hunt even though it has explicit text saying to play it then... do you also wear hats on your feet and shoes on your head?

Wake With Evening's Freshness says "only playable by a tapped vampire" but it doesn't say "usable by a tapped vampire" so therefore wake is now unplayable wallpaper.

Malcolm wrote:

So, I guess I'm asking for a fresh ruling that takes reconciles existing cards with the rules.

You can't play any action modififer / reaction [fixed this after jamesatzephyr's message] during the blood hunt referendum ( Rulebook 6.5.6 , "The blood hunt"), unless ( Rulebook 1.4 , "Golden Rule of Cardtext") cardtext reads you can play the card during a blood hunt referendum.