Window After a Blood hunt?

Pascal wrote:

You can't play anything during the blood hunt referendum ( Rulebook 6.5.6 , "The blood hunt"), unless ( Rulebook 1.4 , "Golden Rule of Cardtext") cardtext reads you can play the card during a blood hunt referendum.

Erm...

You can use political action cards (up to one per Methuselah) to gain a vote during the Blood Hunt referendum. This isn't playing the card per se - it's burned without regard to its card text. e.g. [LSJ 20030814]

You can also use master cards that affect referenda (but not ones restricted to political actions), such as Vox Senis.

LSJ wrote:

Vox Senis can be used in the blood hunt referendum.

It is not dependent on a political action, since:

* it is not an action modifier
* it is not a reaction
* it doesn't restrict itself to "political action" via card text

It cannot be played during a referendum on your own turn, however, since
that use is an out-of-turn master.

Action modifiers and reactions can't be played, due to explicit rules.

Combat cards can't be played because the combat is held in suspension / the Blood Hunt is conducted in isolation from it. [LSJ 20030618]

LSJ wrote:

The Blood Hunt referendum is conducted in isolation (effectively the same
as "combat is suspended during the Blood Hunt referendum).

Action cards (including plain actions, equipment, retainers, allies, powers etc.) can't be played because it wouldn't make any sense. If such cards are already in play, however, they can grant benefits - such as Agate Talisman granting a vote. (Because "otherwise, this referendum is handled just like any other".)

Oh, thanks.
I meant "no action modifiers or reactions" (as written in the rulebook).

My argument was actually NOT that Reform body should be playable while Lay Low shouldn't. It was that either should be playable.

Basically:
Diablerie occurs.
Blood hunt is called
At this point, no action modifiers or reaction cards can be played.
Voting in blood hunt happens, and votes are tallied.
Time to resolve the blood hunt if it passed!
At this point, I feel the window should re-open
This allows The play of all those never used cards that are used when a vampire is being burned: reform body, abandoning the flesh, Ashes to Ashes, Consume the dead.

If there's some problem with opening that window that I don't see, then at least the golden rule should apply to those cards, as they say "only playable when a vampire is being burned" or "only playable when this vampire is being burned". They still won't see much play, but it's just silly that they can't be played in one of the two easiest situations to get burned (gettingdiablerized being the other way).

It's not a major thing either way, since none of these are cards that are much more than corner case regardless. Still, I hate to see cards that are more "wallpaper" than they have to be.

Malcolm wrote:

M
Blood hunt is called
At this point, no action modifiers or reaction cards can be played.
Voting in blood hunt happens, and votes are tallied.
Time to resolve the blood hunt if it passed!
At this point, I feel the window should re-open

Why? Burning the vampire is the essential part of the Blood Hunt. How is it not part of the Blood Hunt window?

Ah! You're quite right. I had been confusing referendum and Polling.

My point about the Golden Rule still stands though: Vampires being burned can't play cards usually. Vampires being burned by a bloodhunt are a subset of vampires being burned. Therefore any card which says "playable by a vampire being burned", should include vampires being burned to blood hunts under the Golden Rule aegis.

Malcolm wrote:

My argument was actually NOT that Reform body should be playable while Lay Low shouldn't. It was that either should be playable.

Basically:
Diablerie occurs.
Blood hunt is called
At this point, no action modifiers or reaction cards can be played.
Voting in blood hunt happens, and votes are tallied.
Time to resolve the blood hunt if it passed!
At this point, I feel the window should re-open
This allows The play of all those never used cards that are used when a vampire is being burned: reform body, abandoning the flesh, Ashes to Ashes, Consume the dead.

If there's some problem with opening that window that I don't see, then at least the golden rule should apply to those cards, as they say "only playable when a vampire is being burned" or "only playable when this vampire is being burned". They still won't see much play, but it's just silly that they can't be played in one of the two easiest situations to get burned (gettingdiablerized being the other way).

It's not a major thing either way, since none of these are cards that are much more than corner case regardless. Still, I hate to see cards that are more "wallpaper" than they have to be.

I agree. I think the diablerie rules should be changed to say that action modifiers and reactions cannot be played during the Blood Hunt referendum, only. Otherwise the other cards don't make a lot of sense: your vampire with gets diablerized, but because he played Reform Body, the diablerie doesn't occur. However, if it didn't occur, how did the vampire get burned again?