Spirit Marionette inferior and Secure Haven

Spirit marionette says to tap "a ready minion controlled by your prey". Is this optional or mandatory? It does not use the usual "may" to indicate optionality.

1) Are you allowed to not tap a minion even if prey controls one?
2) Can you bleed with this card even if your prey controls no minions?
3) Can you bleed with this card if your prey controls only one minion and this minion has Secure Haven?

Name: Spirit Marionette
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Obeah/Dominate
[dom] Bleed at +1 bleed.
[obe] Bleed at +1 bleed and tap a ready minion controlled by your prey (even if the target of the bleed is changed).
[OBE] +1 stealth action. Take control of a ready untapped minion until the end of the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt.

Name: Secure Haven
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master: unique location. Haven.
Put this card on a minion you control. This minion cannot be {the target of other Methuselahs' actions}. Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing master cards on (or that target) this minion. Burn this card if this minion enters torpor. A minion may have only one haven.

Xaddam wrote:

Spirit marionette says to tap "a ready minion controlled by your prey". Is this optional or mandatory?

Mandatory.

Xaddam wrote:

1) Are you allowed to not tap a minion even if prey controls one?

No.
You may choose a minion that is already tapped though.

Xaddam wrote:

2) Can you bleed with this card even if your prey controls no minions?

No.
LSJ 2003-04-08

If a card targets (chooses, selects, is played on, etc.) some target, then the card can only be played if an appropriate target is available.

Xaddam wrote:

3) Can you bleed with this card if your prey controls only one minion and this minion has Secure Haven?

No.
It is a directed action and thus prohibited from targeting the minion in the Secure Haven.

LSJ 10-10-2003 {incompletely addressed, but the only post from LSJ with both Secure Haven and Spirit Marionette}

Adonai wrote:

Xaddam wrote:

Spirit marionette says to tap "a ready minion controlled by your prey". Is this optional or mandatory?

Mandatory.

Xaddam wrote:

1) Are you allowed to not tap a minion even if prey controls one?

No.
You may choose a minion that is already tapped though.

Xaddam wrote:

2) Can you bleed with this card even if your prey controls no minions?

No.
LSJ 2003-04-08

If a card targets (chooses, selects, is played on, etc.) some target, then the card can only be played if an appropriate target is available.

Would these answers apply to all cards with similar enough wording as well? (Public Trust comes to mind.)
I've thought there to be a meaningful difference between Public Trust's text and Undue Influence's text since UI explicitly states that you must choose a vampire in your uncontrolled region when announcing the action.

Should the targeted vampire be announced when announcing the action in all these cases (Public Trust, Undue Influence and Spirit Marionette)?

Adonai wrote:

Xaddam wrote:

3) Can you bleed with this card if your prey controls only one minion and this minion has Secure Haven?

No.
It is a directed action and thus prohibited from targeting the minion in the Secure Haven.
LSJ 10-10-2003 {incompletely addressed, but the only post from LSJ with both Secure Haven and Spirit Marionette}

If the target of the bleed got changed (Deflection etc), would the acting methusaleh's prey still be able to block? I would say yes since SM would be a action targeting a vampire xe controls, but the question is new to me.



Undue Influence
Type: Action
Requires: anarch Chimerstry/Presence/Quietus
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready anarch. Choose a vampire in your uncontrolled region.
[chi] Move 1 blood from an uncontrolled minion in any uncontrolled region to the chosen vampire.

  Bleed. If the bleed is successful, put 1 blood count



Public Trust

Type: Action

Requires: Presence

Cost: 1 blood

  Bleed at +2 bleed.

 As above, and if the bleed is successful (for 1 or more), add 1 counter from the blood bank to a vampire in your uncontrolled region.

Adonai wrote:

Xaddam wrote:

Spirit marionette says to tap "a ready minion controlled by your prey". Is this optional or mandatory?

Mandatory.

Xaddam wrote:

1) Are you allowed to not tap a minion even if prey controls one?

No.
You may choose a minion that is already tapped though.

Correct.

Adonai wrote:

Xaddam wrote:

2) Can you bleed with this card even if your prey controls no minions?

No.
LSJ 2003-04-08

If a card targets (chooses, selects, is played on, etc.) some target, then the card can only be played if an appropriate target is available.

Although this looks quite fair, the problem of 3rd Tradition / Creation Rites ("do you have to announce how much blood you move when declaring the action") would seem to point to the other direction. Inferior Spirit Marionnette doesn't target a minion controlled by the prey, but only the Methuselah being bled. [LSJ 20050621]
I'll have to think a tad more on that one.

Adonai wrote:

Xaddam wrote:

3) Can you bleed with this card if your prey controls only one minion and this minion has Secure Haven?

No.
It is a directed action and thus prohibited from targeting the minion in the Secure Haven.

LSJ 10-10-2003 {incompletely addressed, but the only post from LSJ with both Secure Haven and Spirit Marionette}

In that very link, LSJ says the wording on Secure Haven ("The minion with this card cannot be affected by actions") should be changed. The current wording ("This minion cannot be the target of actions"), associated to the ruling above (The only target of the action is the target of the bleed) show that the minion with Secure Haven can be tapped by inferior Spirit Marionnette.

Pascal wrote:

Inferior Spirit Marionnette doesn't target a minion controlled by the prey, but only the Methuselah being bled. [LSJ 20050621]
I'll have to think a tad more on that one.

This should have been overturned by www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR080808.htm, by my reading. Please include it in your consideration.

Actions which target multiple things (and Spirit Marionette targets 2 things) are directed and stay directed actions even if one of the targets changes.