Spirit Marionette inferior and Secure Haven

Adonai wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Inferior Spirit Marionnette doesn't target a minion controlled by the prey, but only the Methuselah being bled. [LSJ 20050621]
I'll have to think a tad more on that one.

This should have been overturned by www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR080808.htm, by my reading. Please include it in your consideration.

Actions which target multiple things (and Spirit Marionette targets 2 things) are directed and stay directed actions even if one of the targets changes.

Spirit Marionnette targets one thing, and that's the target of the bleed action.
I linked to the first occurrence of that ruling, but LSJ confirmed it in 2010:
[LSJ 20100519]

On May 19, 12:27 pm, Jozxyqk <> wrote:

> But, under the new D action rules, if my prey bounces a Spirit Marionette
> bleed, he is still a target of the action because I'm going to tap his
> minion. Correct?

No. Spirit Marionette only targets the Methuselah being bled.
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7ab4c9244a2c1592

Edit : stupid me is stupid.

Also one quick question, as i do not understand it fully.

When playing spirit marionette at inferior obeah, do you anounce which minion you will tap when playing spirit marionette, or when the bleed resolves?

Pendargon wrote:

Also one quick question, as i do not understand it fully.

When playing spirit marionette at inferior obeah, do you anounce which minion you will tap when playing spirit marionette, or when the bleed resolves?

When announced. This also means that you can't play Spirit Marionette at [obe] if there isn't a legal target.

However, you can tap an already tapped minion, so this basically means "You can't play [obe] Spirit Marionette if your prey doesn't have any ready minions." You could choose their tapped Ossian and tap it redundantly.

Back to

Xadam wrote:

2) Can you bleed with this card if you prey controls no minion?

Answer given by Adonai ("No") is correct. [LSJ 20040424] (which is quite explicit).

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Pendargon wrote:

Also one quick
question, as i do not understand it fully.

When playing spirit marionette at inferior obeah, do you anounce which minion you will tap when playing spirit marionette, or when the bleed resolves?

When announced. This also means that you can't play Spirit Marionette at [obe] if there isn't a legal target.

However, you can tap an already tapped minion, so this basically means "You can't play [obe] Spirit Marionette if your prey doesn't have any ready minions." You could choose their tapped Ossian and tap it redundantly.

"Target" isn't the right word here. "Eligible minion" is better.

Pascal wrote:

"Target" isn't the right word here. "Eligible minion" is better.

This is the source of the disagreement.
An action to tap a minion controlled by your prey requires a target.
It is also always a directed action because it targets something controlled by someone else and is not a political action.

That the action has 2 effects and potentially 2 targets should not make one of them a non-directed effect.

It is my belief that LSJ was wrong on this, and that an over-ruling would be appropriate.

I'm done presenting my arguments, and I will abide with Pascal's ruling.