Mask of a Thousand Faces

Non-existant user wrote:

I think the problem comes from the idea that permanent effects are "used", because it forces you to set a timing on something that should not have any. It would be much easier to just rule that any permanent effect does not prevent playing MoTF, but of course does not carry on to the next acting minion...

Thank you. Errata this already to be parallel with Shilmulo Deception's wording. Just worry about cards played, boom, headache over. It's tiresome trying to follow the thread of this card's ruling migration over the years.

Shilmulo Deception
Reaction
chi: Only usable when a minion you control successfully blocks (play before combat). Not usable if the blocking minion played any reaction cards that this vampire could not play. Do not tap the blocking minion; tap this reacting vampire instead. Now this vampire is the blocking vampire (and combat begins as normal).
CHI: As above, and this vampire gets an optional maneuver during the first round of the resulting combat.

For Mask of 1000 Faces just sub in "if the acting minion played any action modifier cards..." KISS design, Keep It Short and Sweet, helps clean messy things up.

Azel wrote:

For Mask of 1000 Faces just sub in "if the acting minion played any action modifier cards..." KISS design, Keep It Short and Sweet, helps clean messy things up.

This is essentially the Camarilla Edition version of the card, and it was explicitly errata'd away from that version.

That change predates my involvement with this game, and I can't find any record of the discussion around it, but this RTR post's mention of using Backways and masking with a non-Gangrel vampire is an interesting example of the type of odd corner cases just limiting Mask to action modifiers leads to.

It's of course highly debatable whether this is worse than the current set of odd corner cases, but it's worth bearing in mind that this version has been tried.

Shimulo Deception has some similiar issues, with things like clan-specific intercept and such, but since it happens only after a successful block, there's less obvious scope for abuse, so it seems fine.

drnlmza wrote:

That change predates my involvement with this game, and I can't find any record of the discussion around it, but this RTR post's mention of using Backways and masking with a non-Gangrel vampire is an interesting example of the type of odd corner cases just limiting Mask to action modifiers leads to.

The problem here is not Mask, it is Backways. Tapping the Backways should be an Action Modifier and all similar effects granted by permanent cards should have a proper timing. LSJ kind of knew it since the imbued Powers were worded that way, but such a change would require errating too many cards.

Non-existant user wrote:

The problem here is not Mask, it is Backways. Tapping the Backways should be an Action Modifier and all similar effects granted by permanent cards should have a proper timing. LSJ kind of knew it since the imbued Powers were worded that way, but such a change would require errating too many cards.

You are pretty right. Card ability does not resolve as card played ; that's why, for example, Maris Streck or Anu Diptinatpa are widly more powerful than what you would believe at first read.

Still, the overhaul is not doable without a complete new edition and a ginormous amount of effort. It's probably not worth it.

Ohlmann wrote:

Non-existant user wrote:

The problem here is not Mask, it is Backways. Tapping the Backways should be an Action Modifier and all similar effects granted by permanent cards should have a proper timing. LSJ kind of knew it since the imbued Powers were worded that way, but such a change would require errating too many cards.

You are pretty right. Card ability does not resolve as card played ; that's why, for example, Maris Streck or Anu Diptinatpa are widly more powerful than what you would believe at first read.

Still, the overhaul is not doable without a complete new edition and a ginormous amount of effort. It's probably not worth it.

Or we could just split the difference and go back to the banning solution. I wouldn't mind if M1KF, Maris Streck, and Anu were all banned. Clean up the game already. And while we're at it, might I petition for a few more keywords, too?