More smartass ...: 'as card is played'

This is my second smartass article.

It should be noted that a single clarification/ruling will void the entire chain of argument I am about to present.

Thesis: All action modifiers are by default playable during the acting Meth's 'as card is played', in this case referring to the action card being played.

Argument 1: The action modifier Psalm of the Damned has been ruled to be playable after a wake card is played to prevent the reacting Meth from playing more reaction cards.

Argument 2: Wake cards are legal to play in order to enable the playing of Rewind Time, which in turn is used to cancel the acting Meth's action card 'as card is played'.


The above statement only holds true for unambiguous action cards. The reason for this is that the 'as card is played' window ends before the 'as action is anounced' window. So, for example, you're not allowed to wait with your DI on GTU until the acting Meth has finalized the declaration if it's a bleed or moving blood to the uncontrolled region.

It could be argued that the above holds true for any action card, unabigious or not, in which case you can never play an action modifier on your own action card until the action is fully declared (which occurs after the 'as card is played window'.

This would, however, present us with another ambiguity.

The 'as card is played' window isn't indivisible. I play an action card, you DI said card, a third player plays Sudden on your DI, and my action card is now played and I'm about to announce the action. Futhermore, we have an explicit ruling stating that playing a wake-card before playing Rewind Time is also legal. This last ruling allows the reacting Meth to stack reactions during the 'as cardis played' window for an action card.

Thus it follows that there is an action to react to (or wake cards wouldn't be playable in the first place), ie that the action starts before it is anounced. Following this line of reasoning it also follows that action modifiers are playable during this window, provided that they don't refer to an effect expicitly needing an action announcement.

Let me clarify. Stacking Conditioning on GtU during the 'as card is played' window would be illegal, because the playing GtU at inferior or superior isn't determined until the 'as action is announced' window.

Conditioning on Computer Hacking seems to work though. Notably, as acting Meth I'd expect to be allowed to stack my non-problematic modifiers before the reacting Meth is allowed to DI/wake RT. This because of how the rules handle impulse swapping.

It is, however, somewhat problematic that when the impulse passes, the action card to which all modifiers refer, can still be cancelled during its 'as card is played' window, in which case you have an acting Meth legally having played a number of modifiers on an action that will never be announced.

For practical purposes, the above is normally only useful if the acting Meth wants to cycle into a modifier explicitly limited to play during the 'as action is announced' window. Seduction comes to mind. Or possibly in order to clean up a jammed hand in general.

The clarification/ruling which would void this entire chain of reasoning is one that expicitly states that Psalm of the Damned cannot be played during the 'as card is played' window, eg can't be used to prevent the playing of Rewinf Time afte a wake.

As usual, flame on.

yappo wrote:

" Let me clarify. Stacking Conditioning on GtU during the 'as card is played' window would be illegal, because the playing GtU at inferior or superior isn't determined until the 'as action is announced' window.

Conditioning on Computer Hacking seems to work though."

No, it seems you are mistaken here.
Conditioning on computer hacking does not work either.

Declaring what action you are doing with the card, be it "i can choose between Gtu forward or down" or "i have to bleed for +1 bleed with Computer hacking", is the same : you declare the terms of the action when the card is played. Then there is a window for playing D.I. and/or Rewind time (by card text) before you can go on.

I really can't understand the point you are trying to prove here.
Psalm of the damned can be played after a wake, yes, and so what ? Does it somewhat bend the rules ? I can't see where it should be a problem, since when the blocking minion plays his first reaction card (wake), as the acting meth, you have the priority to play any card you want to trump the block.

Please enlighten me. (else I can't flame anything and I hate it when my matchbox sits there unused )

yappo wrote:

Argument 1: The action modifier Psalm of the Damned has been ruled to be playable after a wake card is played to prevent the reacting Meth from playing more reaction cards.

You are probably talking about a clarification, it doesn't need additional ruling because it follows the normal sequencing rules just fine.

For example:
Scenario 1:
X bleed Y and give away impulse. Y play wake and decides to wait until X play +bleed action modifier before playing deflection (returns the impulse). X play Psalm of the Damned. X can not play deflection.

Scenario 2:
X bleed Y and give away impulse. Y play wake and immediately play deflection. X can not insert Psalm of the Damned between the cards because he does not have the impulse.

I really can't understand the point you are trying to prove here.
Psalm of the damned can be played after a wake, yes, and so what ? Does it somewhat bend the rules ? I can't see where it should be a problem, since when the blocking minion plays his first reaction card (wake), as the acting meth, you have the priority to play any card you want to trump the block.

If Wake and Rewind Time can be played in the 'as announced' window and Psalm of the Damned can be played in the same window as Wake, it follows that Psalm of the Damned can be played in the 'as announced' window as well, despite lacking an explicit 'usable as announced' clause. Either Psalm is arbitrated to be an exception or every action modifier is playable in the 'as announced' window by default.

Chaitan wrote:

You are probably talking about a clarification, it doesn't need additional ruling because it follows the normal sequencing rules just fine.

For example:
Scenario 1:
X bleed Y and give away impulse. Y play wake and decides to wait until X play +bleed action modifier before playing deflection (returns the impulse). X play Psalm of the Damned. X can not play deflection.

Scenario 2:
X bleed Y and give away impulse. Y play wake and immediately play deflection. X can not insert Psalm of the Damned between the cards because he does not have the impulse.

That's incorrect. The impulse always passes back to the acting Methuselah when an effect is played. After Y plays a Wake, X gets to play Psalm of the Damned.