file Gwyedd and Horrific Countenance

14 May 2012 15:39 - 14 May 2012 15:40 #30292 by Boris The Blade

In a thread which was about why Elder Impersonation's text was different from Horrific Countenance's, and why hadn't the Rules Team or Design Team decided to change Horrific Countenance to match Elder Impersonation, LSJ assumed that the two had the same card text?

That seems... untenable.

That thread was about untap vs do not tap, not about block fails vs do not block. And LSJ's "Horrific Countenance has not risen to errata threshold" sounds a lot like "Why bother reading a card no one plays?" to me :laugh:

Related question: the acting minion plays superior faceless followed by inferior Dawn Operations. The blocking minion chooses not to block. Is he tapped?
Last edit: 14 May 2012 15:40 by Boris The Blade.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2012 18:05 #30316 by Megabaja

Anyway,
A) A minion has blocked.
B) The action is not blocked.

are two compatible facts (see also Form of Mist and any card that continues the action). There's a slight difference between a failed block attempt and an action blocked that continues or "is not blocked".

Since the minion has blocked (condition in order to play Horrific Countenance), it won't be tapped. It would be the same if Gwyedd plays Form of Mist superior instead.


Wait there. It is not that simple.

First,
A and B are not compatible. If A is true, B is excluded. What did minion block? This action can continue only "as if not blocked" which is not the case with Horrific Countenance.
Second,
Action called is not interrupted (e.g. combat does not begin) and there is not "as if unblocked" clause, but it can be interrupted with combat. This is not a slight difference. As stated elsewhere: combat is a part of block - ergo - you can play Horrific Countenance after combat, in Freak Drive window. This card does not have "play before combat, if any" clause either.
Third,
As I already stated twice - it is clearly written on the card that the action is NOT blocked.

Ignorance is bliss.
Cypher, Matrix

:trub:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2012 18:32 #30321 by Suoli

First,
A and B are not compatible. If A is true, B is excluded.


Sure they are. A signifies that a minion has blocked at some point, B signifies that the action is currently not blocked.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Ankha

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2012 19:01 - 14 May 2012 19:16 #30326 by Megabaja
There is not a single card that states that action is not blocked, except Horrific Countenance. Every other card says that action continues "as if unblocked". This card states that action is not blocked, for the fourth time. Even if the basic rules would say that it is blocked (and they don't), card stating otherwise would take precedence as in :

1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards

Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence.


If you think you're correct on this solve a more complicated problem:

Movement of the Slow Body
Type: Action
Requires: Protean
+2 stealth action. Only usable by a tapped vampire in torpor
[pro] The acting vampire untaps. If this action is blocked, there is no combat. If the blocking minion is a vampire, he or she gets the opportunity to diablerize this acting vampire.
[PRO] As above, and this vampire also gains 1 blood from the blood bank.

Horrific Countenance
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Protean
Cost: 4 blood
Only usable when this vampire is blocked.
[pro] Untap the blocking minion. This action is not blocked, and it is now unblockable.


Minion A is in torpor and plays Movement of the Slow Body. Vampire B blocks the action. Minion A plays Horrific Countenance. Is minion B allowed to diablerise vampire A?

EDIT:
@Suoli - To repeat one more time. This card states that action, in fact, was not blocked. It is written on it for god's sake.

Ignorance is bliss.
Cypher, Matrix

:trub:
Last edit: 14 May 2012 19:16 by Megabaja.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2012 19:11 - 14 May 2012 19:12 #30327 by Ankha

There is not a single card that states that action is not blocked, except Horrific Countenance. Every other card says that action continues "as if unblocked". This card states that action is not blocked, for the fourth time

The card states : "when this vampire is blocked. ... This action is not blocked", not merely that the action is not blocked. The "contradiction" on the card doesn't seem to bother you though.
I agree with Suoli clarification about that.

Even if the basic rules would say that it is blocked (and they don't), card stating otherwise would take precedence as in :

1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards

Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence.

Sure. But that's exactly what we're talking about: what does the card say about the action.

If you think you're correct on this solve a more complicated problem:

Movement of the Slow Body
Type: Action
Requires: Protean
+2 stealth action. Only usable by a tapped vampire in torpor
[pro] The acting vampire untaps. If this action is blocked, there is no combat. If the blocking minion is a vampire, he or she gets the opportunity to diablerize this acting vampire.
[PRO] As above, and this vampire also gains 1 blood from the blood bank.

Horrific Countenance
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Protean
Cost: 4 blood
Only usable when this vampire is blocked.
[pro] Untap the blocking minion. This action is not blocked, and it is now unblockable.


Minion A is in torpor and plays Movement of the Slow Body. Vampire B blocks the action. Minion A plays Horrific Countenance. Is minion B allowed to diablerise vampire A?

Acting minion may play Horrific Countenance before B can diablerize A (because A is acting). Same thing as Mirror Walk.
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/ccbb2674f23b9cc/319ebd30296dc180?hl=fr&lnk=gst&q=mirror+walk+diablerie#319ebd30296dc180

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 14 May 2012 19:12 by Ankha.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2012 19:13 - 14 May 2012 19:14 #30328 by Ke.
Isn't the answer obvious "This action is not blocked, and it is now unblockable"
Last edit: 14 May 2012 19:14 by Ke..
The following user(s) said Thank You: Megabaja

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.101 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum