target minion protection and out of turn action sequence

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Why do we have to make this as complicated as it seems like people are intending it to be?

At worst, could we amend the CRR to have some nice clear examples of how to apply the Sequencing Rules.

OR... create another simple effect...

"Effect Declaration"
If players wish to use some between-action effects (such as Heidelberg Casstle, Germany) then immediately after an action resolves and before the declaration of the next action (the Methuselah of the current Minion Phase must wait for these declarations to be made), those players must declare their intention to use an effect. The normal Sequencing Rule is then applied to the order of those effects.

Because it breaks the current Sequencing / Impulse rule.
Currently, whether a phase/step is over is detected by the fact that everyone passes the Impulse.
Introducing an effect like this means that everyone must pass the impulse twice in order to end the phase (first time to end "in between actions", second time to end "declare actions").

The simplest thing would be to divide "declare actions" in two steps:
- before the action is taken (with its own impulse)
- declare the action (or declining to do so)

Leading to the following scenarios:

A: "I'm going to perform an action. I don't have anything before, do you use your Heidelberg Castle?"
B: "Yes <doing some stuff>"
A: "Ok. Anyone else?"
All passes
A: "Now bleeding for 3" or "No action at all, I pass"

Other scenario:
A: "Ok I'm done with my actions."
B: (getting the impulse). "Ok, I use Heidelberg now. Anyone else has something to do before I start my action?"
All passes
B: "ok, I pass (no action)"

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Squidalot wrote:

@Pascal - please can you put the 'between actions impulse' in the rules rather than relying on a ruling. I don't think it's very clear from section 1.6.1 (5) Sequencing how this works.

I'll give it a try, but I'm afraid I'll have to write down something like 'There are two impulses during the minion phase'. I'll try to get a clean formulation.

I'm not sure why this is more difficult than, for example, a series of combat steps.

Your minion phase consists of:
a) declare an action - sequence as normal - then
b) between actions - sequence as normal
Repeat until everyone passes.

It means that you can't use Heidelberg before the first action in the turn. Invert a) and b), and it means you can't use it after.

I prefer a nested impulse sequence of "complex" steps (A), rather than multiple impulse sequences in a row of "simple" steps (B).

(A) being: during the phase, the impulse goes round between players only once (when all players have passed, the phase is over). A player with the Impulse can do X, X being a complex things which can have impulse sequences in it (such as my proposal. X being composed of an "before action" impulse sequence, then a "declare action" step)

(B) being: during the phase, the impulse goes round between players. A player with the Impulse can do S, a simple thing. When everyone has passed, then another impulse goes round so players can do S'. Then... (James' and Andrew's proposal)

The problem with (B) is that you can easily lose track of which sequence of impulse you're in if there's more than 2 sequences in a row, and that each player must pass as many times as there's a sequence so the phase is over.

(A) is already used in plenty of cases, especially the "DI" step. When someone announces an action, the first step is to check if anyone wants to DI/cancel it, using an impulse sequence.
Similary, we can imagine than before announcing the action, there's a step for "between actions" effects using an impulse sequence.