"Cannot be moved" and Carver's Meat Packing and Storage

is there a ruling to support that statement? I couldn't find any specific rulings concerning counters and uncontrolled region... remember, it is not a card on a vampire. Reality's text doesn't say anything about counters, and quite opposite, states that cards are out of play. And for that matter, how this counter is any different from a blood counter?

Megabaja wrote:

is there a ruling to support that statement?

Yes.

LSJ

PB

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Gabrielle di Righetti can steal blood, because "steal" actions have been ruled, in the past, to not care if the target amount of blood exists or not (i.e. you can steal 2 blood from a minion with 0 blood). Although I can't explain why you can't 'steal equipment' from a minion with no equipment (other than LSJ said so).

the ruling about stealing/burning blood counters has to do with the targeting rules. if a minion has 3 pieces of equipment and I play an action to "steal equipment from a minion" I have to first announce which equipment I'm targeting among the 3 seperate cards.
with blood, the counters themselves are never targets. otherwise this exchange might happen:
"I steal 1 blood from Arika"
"Which blood?"
"The top left counter"
"I play a reaction that costs 1 blood, and I spend the top left counter. your action fizzles."

so instead, the action is always targeted at the vampire itself, whether or not it has blood available.

What I'm finding incongruous is that when I target a vampire's blood, I target the vampire, but when I target a vampire's equipment, I target the equipment. Both the blood and equipment are 'owned'/'on' that same vampire... but one I can steal if it is not there (blood) but one I cannot steal if it is not there (equipment). So, other than fiat by "The Powers That Be", I can't really see a logical reason for why you can steal non-existant blood but cannot steal non-existant equipment.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

So, other than fiat by "The Powers That Be", I can't really see a logical reason for why you can steal non-existant blood but cannot steal non-existant equipment.

a. Steal Blood.
The vampire is the target, is there and is a valid target (empty or not — you just steal zero).

b. Steal Equipment.
If there is no equipment then there is no valid target (you're targeting a piece of equipment not a vamp).

Seems logical.

I disagree - it's not logical. However, the strikes get separate descriptions in the rulebook.

If stealing equipment worked the same way as stealing blood, a minion could declare the strike and then get to choose whatever equipment the opposing minion had during strike resolution or indeed fail to steal equipment if there were none.

As a matter of fact, there is nothing in the rules that requires you to target a specific piece of equipment when declaring a strike to steal (or burn) equipment.

Choosing the equipment to steal is an effect of the strike according to the rulebook, Section 6.4.5. Effects of strikes occur during strike resolution, not strike declaration. According to the rules as written, a minion could declare a strike to steal equipment against an opposing minion with multiple eligible pieces of equipment, and then, assuming the strike resolves, choose which equipment to steal during resolution. The same applies to strikes to burn equipment.

In fact, that is the only time the minion could choose the equipment to steal, at least according to the rules as written.

Therefore, logically, if you don't have to choose the equipment to steal during strike resolution, you could choose the strike on a minion with no equipment.