file Sequencing and checking for triggers

12 Oct 2018 07:32 #91157 by Malachy
Greets!

In the Phases of VtES we can sequence our effects as we like, in most cases. But do we get to negate triggers of cards by doing so? I think we cannot, but here is an example:

I have Antediluvians Awakening and Judgment: Camarilla Segregation in play, and my Prey has a Non-Camarilla vampire with a capacity above 3. I pass the turn. Does he get to negate J:CS's trigger by queueing it AFTER he burnt his non-cam vamp to Antediluvian?

I believe one cannot deny cards checking for triggering, you can only sequence thier effects, but waiting on a confirmation here :)

Antediluvian Awakening
[DS:U2, SW:PV, HttB:PGar]
Cardtype: Master
Unique master.
Put this card in play. During each Methuselah's unlock phase, he or she burns 1 pool, or he or she may burn a vampire he or she controls with a capacity 4 or more to burn this card.
Artist: Ron Spencer; Gary Chatterton

Judgment: Camarilla Segregation
[DS:U, CE:R2]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 1 blood
Requires a ready prince or justicar. +1 stealth action.
Put this card in play. Each Methuselah controlling a non-Camarilla vampire burns 1 pool during his or her unlock phase. Any Methuselah may burn this card by burning a non-Camarilla vampire he or she controls during his or her master phase.
Artist: Richard Kane Ferguson


NC of Hungary

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12 Oct 2018 10:25 - 12 Oct 2018 10:26 #91160 by Klaital
Yes he can negate the damage from AA by burning a vampire in his untap phase to burn the AA. (can't do this with camarilla segregation though since for that you burn a vampire in master phase while the damage happens in untap). Further, the card text of AA even directly says that you either burn a pool OR burn a vampire to burn the AA.
Last edit: 12 Oct 2018 10:26 by Klaital.

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12 Oct 2018 10:32 #91161 by Malachy
Please read my question more thoroughly! :) I did not ask for any of these answers you provided, but it might be my English.

NC of Hungary

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12 Oct 2018 10:53 - 12 Oct 2018 10:57 #91162 by Klaital
Ah well yes if he controls no non-camarilla vampires after burning his vampire to AA, then he gets to avoid burning pool for cam seg. How it works is that you cannot leave your untap phase with any effects that require you to do something unresolved, but if the condition for that effect disappears, then the effect is no longer requiring you to do anything and you can move forward.

Here is how it actually happens.

He starts his untap phase, untaps all his cards, then checks for effects that happen during untap phase, for simplicity's sake let's say there is no other effects but these two.

First, he chooses to resolve Antediluvian Awakening, burning his vampire to burn the AA.
Second he chooses to resolve Camarilla Seg, that checks that he does not control any non-camarilla vampires and thus does nothing.
Then he moves on to his master phase with no unresolved untap phase effects.

The camarilla seg effect isn't denied from triggering, it just does not do anything since he does not control non-cam vampire when he triggers it.
Last edit: 12 Oct 2018 10:57 by Klaital.

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12 Oct 2018 11:15 #91164 by Malachy
But that is what worries me, your explanation feels off. I understand you can sequence the actual effects, like gaining a pool for the Edge before burnin pool for something in your untap phase, using Vessels, etc... But can you actually deny a card checking by sequencing it rather then immediately checking as you are in your untap phase? There is a difference between chosing the order of resolving these effects and checking their triggers, I think you cannot juggle with that.

I'm forcing the subject because I vaguely remember a post I cannot find now, where it was the case with a vampire in torpor in the untap phase. It had a Fame and a Renewed Vigor on it, as I can recall, Fame triggered nonetheless of the untap rescue of Renewed Vigor and the pool damage had to be taken.

Fame
[Jyhad:U, VTES:U, SW:PB, CE:PB, Anarchs:PG, BH:PN2, KMW:PAl, Third:PTz, KoT:U/PT2, HttB:PGar/PSal]
Cardtype: Master
Unique master.
Put this card on a ready vampire. If this vampire goes to torpor, his or her controller burns 3 pool. While this vampire is in torpor, each Methuselah burns 1 pool during his or her unlock phase.
Artist: Kaja Foglio; Brian LeBlanc

Renewed Vigor
[BL:C2, LoB:C]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obeah/Fortitude
+1 stealth action.
[for] Put this card on this acting vampire. During your unlock phase, if this vampire is in torpor, you can burn this card to move him or her to your ready region. A vampire can have only one Renewed Vigor.
[obe] Move a vampire in torpor to his controller's ready region, or restore an ally or retainer to his or her starting life (with life counters from the blood bank).
[OBE] Choose any other vampire. That vampire gains enough blood from the blood bank to reach full capacity.
Artist: Becky Cloonan


NC of Hungary

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12 Oct 2018 12:39 - 12 Oct 2018 12:43 #91165 by Bloodartist
So you are basically asking do the "effects go in stack" like they would in magic the gathering. Afaik the answer is no(?) and the case you referred to seems to have been ruled wrongly...?

I am fairly certain that if you would take damage from fame, there are some other contradictory rulings elsewhere waiting...

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 12 Oct 2018 12:43 by Bloodartist.

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