file Sequencing and checking for triggers

10 Dec 2020 22:29 #101237 by beslin igor

jamesatzephyr wrote:

beslin igor wrote: Tnx James so if i good understand if example Stanislava as Camarila Inner Circle with Derange become Malkav,after she move Derange she become Indenpendent,is default Gangrel sect right?


Yes. And Lucita (Independent Lasombra by text, but Camarilla Malkavian because of Derange) becomes a Sabbat Malkavian when she loses her Derange.

beslin igor wrote: i beleive him become Lasombra sabbat and lose title,right?


The title goes inert, but isn't fully lost. If he found some way of becoming Camarilla again, he could resume being Prince.


So with rule changes about default clan/sect there,we have diferent answer. so every vampire have his own sect.
so with new rules when Stanislava move Derange she become again Camarila Gangrel Inner Circle.
Giangaleazzo, The Traitor when move Derange him become again Camarilla Prince of Milan.
Lucita(basic) when move Derange become Independent Lasombra,correct?

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11 Dec 2020 07:47 #101239 by Timo
We also have the fact that the online card text of derange does not change the sect of the target vampire.

So what happen if a Camarilla malkavian puts a derange on a sabbat titled vampire ? (let's say a Lasombra archbishop)

Name: Derange
[Sabbat:R, CE:R, Third:R]
Cardtype: Action
Clan: Malkavian/Malkavian antitribu
This is a +1 stealth action.
(D) Put this card on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card is considered to be the same clan as the acting vampire. The vampire with this card does not unlock as normal. During his or her controller's unlock phase, he or she may burn 1 blood to unlock. The vampire with this card may move it to another vampire as a (D) action. This card cannot be placed on a Malkavian or Malkavian antitribu.
Artist: Eric LaCombe

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11 Dec 2020 08:39 - 11 Dec 2020 08:41 #101240 by Ankha

beslin igor wrote: So with rule changes about default clan/sect there,we have diferent answer. so every vampire have his own sect.
so with the new rules, when Stanislava moves Derange to someone else, she becomes Camarila Gangrel Inner Circle again.

Correct.

beslin igor wrote: When Giangaleazzo, The Traitor moves Derange to someone else, he becomes Camarilla Prince of Milan again.

Correct.

beslin igor wrote: When Lucita (basic) moves Derange to someone else, she becomes Independent Lasombra again.

Correct.

Timo wrote: We also have the fact that the online card text of derange does not change the sect of the target vampire.

Correct.

Timo wrote: So what happen if a Camarilla malkavian puts a derange on a sabbat titled vampire ? (let's say a Lasombra archbishop)

The Lasombra Sabbat archbishop becomes Malkavian Sabbat archbishop.

Basically, the vampire's clan changes, but not the sect.

Since Derange does not explicitely change the sect of the vampire and there is no default sect anymore, the following rulings are REVERSED:

[LSJ 20030225] groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/6PHVlL-2zf0/m/6yJbIMt5U-QJ
[LSJ 19990924] groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/eCgIHdqC--I/m/y2-GFWQ6aJwJ
[LSJ 20010924] groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/ol2w-WY01dg/m/xjT7ekWcUO0J

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 11 Dec 2020 08:41 by Ankha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, lip

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11 Dec 2020 09:19 #101242 by Timo
So this is effectively a nerf for derange ?

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11 Dec 2020 16:07 #101245 by lip
The point was to simplify the clan and sect concepts. It has begun with changing Anarch to a sect, then making it so that Embrace creates vampires of the same sect.

Now this rule change (that had been announced since ages) is the last piece. The fact that it decreases Derange effectiveness is a side-effect, not an objective. All cards allowing clan changes are affected, so Clan Impersonation, for example, would let you have Guruhi switching to Ventrue Kholo and using Ventrue Headquarters.

So I wouldn't say it is effectively a Derange nerf. It is nerfing Derange as a side-effect, sure. Also, it simplifies it: one does not need to know obscure rulings anymore to figure out what the card does. So, as simplification goes, target reached ☺︎
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, Bloodartist

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07 Jan 2021 15:36 - 07 Jan 2021 15:37 #101381 by Timo
yeah I understand that.

But maybe, Derange could have been modified to say :
"The vampire with this card is considered to be the same clan and the same sect as the acting vampire."

Nevertheless it is no big deal. (except it would have meant a reprint of this scarce card :DEM:)
Last edit: 07 Jan 2021 15:37 by Timo. Reason: Typo

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