file Mask of a 1000 faces and bleed modifiers

18 Jan 2019 14:52 #93016 by Ankha

Incorrect. Vampire B is already "using" the +3 bleed from the first Conditioning. It cannot use another bleed-increasing effect provided by an action modifier card (rulebook).


Is a vampire "using" +X bleed from the following action modifiers? I'm using the text from www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt , which has all the "(limited)" and "does not count against the limit" updates:

Indeed, but this is not the intended effect. The limit affects only action modifiers being played during an action.

Since they are action modifiers, if they are being used by the minion, it would seem simpler to change the wording of the rule to something like "Only one action modifier can be played on the action to... This is noted by (limited)." My reasoning for that is that for cards that go in play, they already have a chunk of extra text to deal with that, so avoiding the need for "which does not count against the limit" frees up that space. Generally that's much simpler on a straight-forward action modifier that says something like: "+1 bleed, which does not count against the limit."

That sounds reasonable.

Also, www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/76595-rules-team-rulings-rtr-11-05-2018 suggests that Leverage should have had its card text changed, but the card list says:
Burn the Edge to get +1 bleed for this action. You cannot gain the Edge this action. If you would get the Edge, it is burned instead.

This is an oversight I will fix.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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20 Jan 2023 22:33 #107224 by Ratadin
Sorry for resurrecting this, but I am looking at the rulebook now, and it doesn't say:
"A minion cannot ---use--- more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action. Some bleed action modifiers explicitly state that they do not count against this limit; those can be played before or after modifiers that count against the limit. This rule is reminded on some cards by the "(limited)" card text"

As it used to, but:

"During a bleed action, a minion cannot ---play--- more than one action modifier card to increase the bleed amount. This rule is reminded on those cards by the “(limited)” card text."

Does this mean this answers and ruling are outdated and now you can use multiple bleed modifiers with Mask or Empower the Puppet king?

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21 Jan 2023 08:09 #107225 by inm8
The rules regarding bleed modifiers have not changed even though the rulebook text has... additionally the rulebook text does a poor job of precisely explaining the actual way it works and is limited.

Better wording that reflect the actual rules would be:

During a bleed action, an action modifier card that would increase the bleed amount cannot be played if one is already doing so.

Modifiers that do not count towards the limit by explicit card text and effects from cards in play are not limited by the above.

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23 Jan 2023 16:39 #107245 by Ankha

Sorry for resurrecting this, but I am looking at the rulebook now, and it doesn't say:
"A minion cannot ---use--- more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action. Some bleed action modifiers explicitly state that they do not count against this limit; those can be played before or after modifiers that count against the limit. This rule is reminded on some cards by the "(limited)" card text"

As it used to, but:

"During a bleed action, a minion cannot ---play--- more than one action modifier card to increase the bleed amount. This rule is reminded on those cards by the “(limited)” card text."

No, it's a mistake in the rulebook. It should read "use" or "no more than one action modifier card can be played to increase a bleed during a bleed action."

Does this mean this answers and ruling are outdated and now you can use multiple bleed modifiers with Mask or Empower the Puppet king?

No. They stand.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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23 Jan 2023 18:01 #107246 by inm8

"no more than one action modifier card can be played to increase a bleed during a bleed action."


Note that the above does not address the fact that the limit is reached only as long as the modifier is actively modifying the bleed and not just by being played which is what the text above says when phrasing it with "[...] can be played to increase a bleed [...]"

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24 Jan 2023 07:23 #107249 by Ankha

"no more than one action modifier card can be played to increase a bleed during a bleed action."


Note that the above does not address the fact that the limit is reached only as long as the modifier is actively modifying the bleed and not just by being played which is what the text above says when phrasing it with "[...] can be played to increase a bleed [...]"

It does address it.
If your prey has 10 pool or more, Foreshadowing Destruction at superior doesn't increase the bleed. Therefore you can play it and it doesn't count against the limit.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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