file Confirmation needed about Garrote

11 Jun 2021 11:04 #102457 by Rémi
Dear all,

Thanks for the Debate.
Let's put an example:

The opposing vampire has no blood.
The bearer of Garrote plays Carrion Crows.
Range is close
Strike with Garrote VS Dodge, no minion uses prevent effect.

I would say the garrote can be burnt to burn that opposing vampire..

Card Texts:
Name: Carrion Crows
Cardtype: Combat
Only usable before range is determined. A vampire can play only one Carrion Crows each combat.
[ani] The opposing minion takes 1R environmental damage each round this combat during normal strike resolution.

Regards,
Rémi.

I am Rémi Cavaillé (), Barcelona (SPAIN). I was the Prince of Lyon (FRANCE) in 2003 :)

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11 Jun 2021 14:38 #102459 by kschaefer

The opposing vampire has no blood.
The bearer of Garrote plays Carrion Crows.
Range is close
Strike with Garrote VS Dodge, no minion uses prevent effect.

I would say the garrote can be burnt to burn that opposing vampire..

Yes. The ability to burn a vampire is not tied to the strike being successfully inflicted.  It is a separate effect of the card.

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11 Jun 2021 15:02 - 11 Jun 2021 15:03 #102460 by Timo
I think now what we need is for Ankha to give an official answer.

Because even if yes, for garrote (or sup Arhiman's Demesne for that matter) the 2 parts of the text seems to be separated, it could be argued (and it is !) that the second effect is part of the strike effect and therefore would be dodged.

And it has been ruled like that by LSJ for Blood Rage/Blood Fury (groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/GBcR6aNjIk4/m/DXPyqBM1R8kJ)
Last edit: 11 Jun 2021 15:03 by Timo.

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11 Jun 2021 15:30 #102463 by kschaefer

And it has been ruled like that by LSJ for Blood Rage/Blood Fury (groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/GBcR6aNjIk4/m/DXPyqBM1R8kJ)

LSJ confirms a dodged Garrote strike can still burn a vampire that would otherwise meet the conditions to burn them.

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/tEC5uN8yqUE/m/v2XYLdCbk1oJ

But that ruling was before 02-DEC-2004 RTR in which "Dodge protects the dodger against all strikes, even aggressive S:CE effects (like Catatonic Fear)."

Interestingly, the Blood Rage/Fury ruling cited above uses the RTR reasoning even before the RTR was given.

There's no post RTR reversal from LSJ.
 

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11 Jun 2021 18:23 #102466 by kschaefer

And it has been ruled like that by LSJ for Blood Rage/Blood Fury (groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/GBcR6aNjIk4/m/DXPyqBM1R8kJ)

LSJ confirms a dodged Garrote strike can still burn a vampire that would otherwise meet the conditions to burn them.

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/tEC5uN8yqUE/m/v2XYLdCbk1oJ

But that ruling was before 02-DEC-2004 RTR in which "Dodge protects the dodger against all strikes, even aggressive S:CE effects (like Catatonic Fear)."

Interestingly, the Blood Rage/Fury ruling cited above uses the RTR reasoning even before the RTR was given.

There's no post RTR reversal from LSJ.

 

Actually the more I think about it the RTR decision was basically extending dodge's ability to S:CE.  Neither of the original rulings should be affected by the RTR change.  I'd think LSJ's dodge/Garrote ruling is still accurate.

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12 Jun 2021 17:07 #102470 by Ankha

> So the burn-effect is not an effect of the strike, but only
> a sort of "other effect" of the weapon?
Right. It's something that can be done if something else (opposing
vampire to torpor) happens during the resolution of the strike.


Since it's not part of the strike, dodging the strike does not prevent the bearer from using the Garrote if the opposing vampire goes to torpor.

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/tEC5uN8yqUE/m/czJYA-Pt00sJ

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rémi

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