lightbulb Rulebook: Potentially misleading and oddly placed passages

22 Oct 2021 11:24 #103640 by Hobbesgoblin
The Rulebook states:

Playing a Card

A card is played by announcing its effects, showing the card and placing it from the hand in the ash heap. Sometimes a card will state to put it into play, you should announce its effects and place the card in the play area.

Inside the passus about minion cards there is no stated excepetions for any card (that is not put into play by it's card text)

Later in "SUMMARY OF THE COURSE OF AN ACTION" there is this sentence as part of "3. Resolve the Action"

If the action is blocked, then any card played to perform the action is burned and the block is resolved with these two simultaneous consequences

This suggests that
a) action cards are the exception from the general rule of the above, but this is not stated in the decription of action cards.
b) the sentence implies that Action cards are placed in the ash heap upon resolution, wich would open a "hole" when the action ends without resolution due to any effect.

If it is intended, that Action cards are placed in the ash heap upon action resolution, that should be stated in the description of the card types, as an exception of the general rules, and should include "Or ends for any other reason"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Nov 2021 09:37 - 02 Nov 2021 09:38 #103738 by Hobbesgoblin

Dodge: A dodge strike deals no damage, but it protects the dodging minion and their possessions from the effects of the opposing strike. Retainers are not protected, however. A dodge is effective at any range. A dodge protects even from the effects of a strike done with first strike (see First Strike). A dodge is a strike, even though it is solely defensive. It represents the activity of the minion during that pair of strikes.

This should include wording that it also protects from additional effects from Strike: combat ends (Oubliette, catatonic fear). ("A dodge protects thrm the effects of a strike, regardles of when the strike resolves (i.e. first strike)" or something)

Oubliette

catatonic fear
Last edit: 02 Nov 2021 09:38 by Hobbesgoblin.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Nov 2021 16:04 #103745 by kschaefer
"it protects the dodging minion and their possessions from the effects of the opposing strike"

Isn't damage or loss of blood/life an effect of the strike?

It is.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Nov 2021 16:08 #103746 by Hobbesgoblin
Yes, but the explicit mentioning of "first strike" coud be understood as, that dodge doesnt work agaisnt strike comabt ends, wich resolve even earler in my opnion.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Nov 2021 10:38 - 03 Nov 2021 10:40 #103765 by inm8
I agree with Hobbesgoblin that the rules could be improved. The below leads one to believe that when a CE is played no other strikes resolve including Dodge. Dodge actually always resolves along/simultaneous with whatever strike is resolved first (be it CE, first strike, or a regular strike) and only affects strike effects other than CE, Dodge, or effects aimed at retainers.

Dodge: A dodge strike deals no damage, but it protects the dodging minion and their possessions from the effects of the opposing strike. Retainers are not protected, however. A dodge is effective at any range. A dodge protects even from the effects of a strike done with first strike (see First Strike). A dodge is a strike, even though it is solely defensive. It represents the activity of the minion during that pair of strikes.

Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately. This type of strike is always the first to resolve, even before a strike done with first strike (see First Strike), and it ends combat before other strikes or other strike resolution effects are resolved. Combat ends is effective at any range. Combat ends is not affected by a dodge, since dodge only cancels effects that are directed at the dodging minion.



Another rules part that could benefit from being improved is the fact that one can choose a close combat strike when being at long range for no effect (other than card cycling if using a strike from a card)...the part explaining that ranged strikes can be used at any range is what leads one to believe that the same isn´t true for close-range strikes. Would also be good to mention that a strike always must be chosen. Would be more accurate to write that most strikes resolve simultaneously with the exception of CE and strikes done with first strike...to avoid self-contradiction.

◼ Choose Strike: Each minion chooses their strike. The strike can be from a combat card, from a weapon the minion possesses, by default from a hand strike, or can be from any other card providing this minion a strike. If a minion has used a maneuver from a strike (either a strike card or a weapon) this round, then they cannot choose any other strike for their initial strike of the round.

◼ Resolve Strike: The effects of the strikes from both minions are resolved simultaneously. Most strikes are effective only at close range, unless the strike is identified as ranged, does “R” damage, or is a defensive strike such as dodge or combat ends. Ranged strikes and strikes that do “R” damage can be used at any range, close or long.

Last edit: 03 Nov 2021 10:40 by inm8.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Nov 2021 13:08 #103767 by Bloodartist

Yes, but the explicit mentioning of "first strike" coud be understood as, that dodge doesnt work agaisnt strike comabt ends, wich resolve even earler in my opnion.


Indeed. It does work, but rules are REALLY fuzzy on the timing. One would expect that a strike with first strike resolves before other strikes, but this is not the case. Because... reasons.

Honestly this isn't explained in the rules practically at all. Things are the way they are because rules authorities say so.

Dodge functions as a sort of "counter" to the enemy strike, no matter the timing of said strike.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.121 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum