file Thoughts Betrayed and Hunger of Marduk

21 Sep 2021 23:25 #103246 by Bloodartist

You can use a Strike card that gives an maneuver, in the maneuver step to gain the maneuver, effecively already using a strike:


Note however, that if thoughts betrayed has been played, then you cannot gain a maneuver from a strike card, as that would require you to choose that strike. I think. 

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



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22 Sep 2021 11:02 #103259 by Hobbesgoblin

You can use a Strike card that gives an maneuver, in the maneuver step to gain the maneuver, effecively already using a strike:


Note however, that if thoughts betrayed has been played, then you cannot gain a maneuver from a strike card, as that would require you to choose that strike. I think. 
 

I think you are correct. You may be able to play a manuever givign strike card in the maneuver step (and therefore also choose a strike effectively) but it is stil a strike card, and striek cards are prohibited under the effects of thoughts betrayed.

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22 Sep 2021 11:59 #103261 by ReverendRevolver

You can use a Strike card that gives an maneuver, in the maneuver step to gain the maneuver, effecively already using a strike:


Note however, that if thoughts betrayed has been played, then you cannot gain a maneuver from a strike card, as that would require you to choose that strike. I think. 

 

I think you are correct. You may be able to play a manuever givign strike card in the maneuver step (and therefore also choose a strike effectively) but it is stil a strike card, and striek cards are prohibited under the effects of thoughts betrayed.
‐‐


Thoughts betrayed:

Only usable before range is determined on the first round. Opposing minion takes 1 additional damage in the first round of combat during normal strike resolution. Opposing minion cannot play any strike cards for the duration of this combat.

so cards that say 

Thrown Gate

Strike: 1R damage, with an optional maneuver. Strike: 2R damage, with an optional maneuver.

Can't be used. You're already establishing before range is determined that a red card saying strike:do something is a no-go.

So hunger of (m.o.d.o.k? Marmaduke? Whatever) is in the same camp as 
Gotsdam's sce special or Rabbats torpor special or more closely reflective,  Menele adv merging and striking to steak 2 blood. The card Grant's the ability to use a specific strike for the duration of combat. 

You cannot use a strike cards manuever.  You canNot play diversion @ :tha: for the manuever if opposing minion played TB. Similarly,  Charismatic Aura or Evil Eye would have to be played when the manuever-granting strike carc is played to cancel it, not wait until its "striking". 

Cards granting "this minion may...." aren't a strike card.

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22 Sep 2021 12:57 - 22 Sep 2021 13:00 #103267 by Hobbesgoblin
my understanding of the rules is:

All cards taht say "Strike:..." are Strike cards, those playing thouughts betrayed prohibits.

Hunger of Marduk is a card that gives temporarily the option to choose a specific strike to the minion, but he is not obligated to, therefore it should not be a strike card.

Charismatic Aura is a little bit more special:
It is a strike card, as long as it is in hand (sicne it has a "Strike: ..." effect. And when played for this effect.
But I think it is not a strike card, when played for the acncel effect, since it dooes not say "Strike:..."
This should be similar to multidiscipline cards, wich have all possibel disciplines, as long as in hand, or any other play area, but are only the discipline it is played with when actually played.

For example: Rebekah can discard a "note of the hound" for her special, but cannot cancel a "Hide the heart" when played with [val] with Hide the Mind.

Rebekah

nose of the hound

Hide the Mind

hide the heart
Last edit: 22 Sep 2021 13:00 by Hobbesgoblin.

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23 Sep 2021 03:33 #103278 by Bloodartist
Hunger of Marduk is not a strike card. It gives the minion the ability to do special strikes this round, but it itself is not a strike card. Thus it would work under thoughts betrayed.  

Using a card to cancel a grapple is also not a strike. You're right. 

I cant remember any other weird examples right now. 

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



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27 Sep 2021 16:36 - 28 Sep 2021 06:33 #103346 by inm8
Ankha can you please provide an official clarification/stand on the below, thanks.

Hunger of Marduk


1) Hunger of Marduk is a pre-range card played for the effect that provides the vampire with a temporary ability in the current round that enables it to "strike, ranged: steal 1/2 blood" as an inherent ability just like the ability to make a hand strike....thus it is not a strike card. Correct?

2) Strike cards are the cards that provide a strike effect and are worded "Strike: ....". Correct?

3) Which cards does "cannot play any strike cards" actually cover? Is it:
a) only strike cards (as per the above mentioned definition) played for/at the discipline level that provides the strike effect. Meaning that cards like Charismatic Aura can be played at inferior and cards like Diversion can be played at  and/or .

b) any card having the ability to provide a strike effect as a strike card (as per the above mentioned definition) regardless of what effect it is played for. Meaning that cards like Charismatic Aura  and Diversion cannot be played at all.

4) Would an alternative wording of the card text of Thoughts Betrayed be clearer ex. "Opposing minion cannot play cards for strike effects during this combat" ?

Thoughts Betrayed


Charismatic Aura


Diversion


Further expanding on the questions of the definition of which cards are covered....

5) The card text "discard a card requiring Auspex " is covered by cards that have at least one effect that requires at least Auspex  and is not limited to cards with an effect which only require auspex. Meaning Charismatic Aura can be discarded to get the +2 votes. Correct?

Rebekah


6) The card text "cancel a combat card that requires Auspex   as it is played" is playable against cards that are played for an effect that at least requires auspex and is not limited to cards that are played for an effect which only requires auspex. Meaning it could be used to cancel Charismatic Aura as it is played. Correct?

Hide the Mind
Last edit: 28 Sep 2021 06:33 by inm8. Reason: Numbering the questions to easier follow the answers

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