Elen Camjian second action.

Is a vampire that must hunt and does so and then uses a Freak Drive to unlock (ending up again without blood) able to perform another action other then a hunt i.e. a bleed ???

The rules say that as soon as the situation of a vampire not having any blood is ready and unlocked is true there is a mandatory action that needs to be performed before any other non mandatory actions...there is not anything that would indicate that it only needs to be done once per turn per minion.

Rulebook says:
Note that hunting is a mandatory action for a ready unlocked vampire with no blood. During your minion phase, none of your minions can perform any non-mandatory actions if any of your ready unlocked vampires have hunt actions yet to perform.

Other questions i have around the word "must" on cards, as eluded to by lip... getting stuck or just not able to perform particular actions are reasonable conclusions but what about effects that can´t be performed that "must" be :


Jaggedy Andy goes to torpor, what happens if one can´t discard the two cards (its very unlikely i know) that must be discarded?


Mind of a Killer is played on a minion, what if the controller of the targeted minion only has the one minion and gets to its discard phase without have entered combat and thereby have no valid target for the damage that must be assigned?


If there is an older vampires in torpor does Phillipe Rigaud must attempt to diablerize him or her again if he manages to unlock (assuming he was unsuccessful on the first attempt)?

I´m thinking Phillipe Rigaud doesn´t need to try again because of the text "he must attempt a diablerie action" which he would have done ones already.


Lunatic Eruption has been ruled [ANK 20200227] aligned with the Cry Wolf ruling [LSJ 20090226] , could you please share the rationale for the rulings to better understand why it was ruled that way?

Must say that this is putting mandatory actions in another light then i have always thought it was...mandatory doesn't actually mean mandatory but that they must be performed before any other non mandatory actions once per turn and that isn't reflected in the rules.

If the text of Elen Camjian, Cry Wolf etc. and the rulebook would say "once per turn....must..." it would be better aligned with the current ruling...

Elen Camjian change ex:
Anarch: If you control a locked minion, once per turn Elen must bleed with +1 bleed as a action unless she must hunt.

Cry Wolf change ex:
Unique werewolf with 3 life. 2 strength, 0 bleed. Requires a ready anarch.
If the action to recruit this ally is blocked, the acting anarch goes to torpor. Once per turn this werewolf must enter combat with any minion controlled by another Methuselah as a action. He gets one optional press each combat. This werewolf does not unlock as normal during your unlock phase. If he is locked during your unlock phase, burn him.

Rulebook change ex:
Some actions are mandatory. Any of those actions must once per turn be performed before any nonmandatory actions. If you have two or more minions with mandatory actions, they may be done in the order you choose. A minion required to take a mandatory action cannot perform any other action. For example, once per turn a ready vampire with no blood must hunt as a mandatory action.

Rulebook change ex:
Who can hunt: Any ready vampire. Note that once per turn hunting is a mandatory action for a ready unlocked vampire with no blood. During your minion phase, none of your minions can perform any non-mandatory actions if any of your ready unlocked vampires have hunt actions yet to perform. If you have two or more vampires with mandatory hunt actions, they may be done in the order you choose.

Ankha wrote:

inm8 wrote:

Is a vampire that must hunt and does so and then uses a Freak Drive to unlock (ending up again without blood) able to perform another action other then a hunt i.e. a bleed ???

No, the vampire must hunt.

inm8 wrote:

Other questions i have around the word "must" on cards, as eluded to by lip... getting stuck or just not able to perform particular actions are reasonable conclusions but what about effects that can´t be performed that "must" be :

Jaggedy Andy goes to torpor, what happens if one can´t discard the two cards (its very unlikely i know) that must be discarded?

Andy's controller discards as many cards as possible.

inm8 wrote:

Mind of a Killer is played on a minion, what if the controller of the targeted minion only has the one minion and gets to its discard phase without have entered combat and thereby have no valid target for the damage that must be assigned?

The card is burned, and no damage is inflicted since there is no eligible target.

inm8 wrote:

Lunatic Eruption has been ruled [ANK 20200227] aligned with the Cry Wolf ruling [LSJ 20090226] , could you please share the rationale for the rulings to better understand why it was ruled that way?

Because the action cannot be repeated by the same minion. The Cry Wolf ruling implies that in that case, performing the mandatory action (provided by the card) once is enough.

Now it is clear and would be possible to be clarified with a few additions to the rules like the below....though it doesn´t make the text on the cards more intuitive when they say "must do x" but then again it wouldn´t be the only nor the first thing one needs to know the rules for to get right (i.e. bleed can only be done once per turn).

Rulebook change:
Some actions are mandatory. Any of those actions must be performed before any nonmandatory actions. Nonrepeatable actions stop being mandatory for the turn when performed once. If you have two or more minions with mandatory actions, they may be done in the order you choose. A minion required to take a mandatory action cannot perform any other action. For example, a ready vampire with no blood must hunt as a mandatory action.

If a single minion has two or more different mandatory actions, or cannot perform a mandatory action because of it being nonrepeatable, then they are “stuck” and cannot perform any action (this does not prevent your other minions from performing actions, however).

** Updated, the above is wrong, see later posts

Ankha wrote:

inm8 wrote:

If there is an older vampires in torpor does Phillipe Rigaud must attempt to diablerize him or her again if he manages to unlock (assuming he was unsuccessful on the first attempt)?

Yes.

inm8 wrote:

I´m thinking Phillipe Rigaud doesn´t need to try again because of the text "he must attempt a diablerie action" which he would have done ones already.

Diablerie actions are not restricted by the NRA.

I know diablerie actions are not restricted by the NRA but doesn´t the card text say/mean that only "a"/one diablerie action must be attempted???

Card text
Sabbat. Black Hand: Phillipe cannot block undirected actions. When any older vampires are in torpor that Phillipe may diablerize, he must attempt a diablerie action (unless he must hunt).

2 question about Elen.

1) if you have locked minion,can Elen use any action cards to bleed (and she also get +1 bleed by she special) or equipment where you bleed with D action (example: Camera Phone or Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers)?

2) if Elen have Lunatic Eruption,and you have vampire who must hunt(I beleive hunt is before Lunatic Eruption),after vampire hunt what Elen can now,bleed by she text,use Lunatic Eruption or she stuck?

Camera Phone
Electronic equipment.

The minion with this equipment may bleed at +1 bleed as a Ⓓ action. No other equipment can increase the bleed amount of this action.

Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers
Unique.

The bearer gets -2 stealth when bleeding. This vampire can bleed as a Ⓓ action that costs 1 blood; this action gets +3 bleed if the target Methuselah does not control a ready unlocked minion.

Lunatic Eruption
e Ⓓ Put this card on any ready minion. During his or her minion phase, the minion with this card must enter combat with a ready minion controlled by his or her prey as a Ⓓ action (unless the minion must hunt). Any minion may burn this card as an action.

E As above, and the minion taking the action to burn this card takes 1 unpreventable damage when this card is burned.