When does NRA apply/not apply
18 Jan 2022 13:48 #104508
by Ankha
See also groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/CaderX6x79w/m/OfLzLcEYK4YJ
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/MIRAQ05Ag7E/m/ywRuvwOC46wJ
Replied by Ankha on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
No, Change of Target ends the action. No action modifier or reaction cards can be played after.Just to be clear (sorry, I know we've been over and over the topic, but I want to make sure all the rulings I listed are good now):
Can the opponent play a Reaction (eg. Cats' Guidance) after you played Change of Target?
See also groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/CaderX6x79w/m/OfLzLcEYK4YJ
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/MIRAQ05Ag7E/m/ywRuvwOC46wJ
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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18 Jan 2022 14:53 #104510
by inm8
I´m in doubt here...
The above linked rulings seem to be irrelevant to me as they are from a time before the current text of Change of Target which has changed over time
Earlier in this thread (see below quote), you say that "the action ends (unsuccessfully)" was the old template for "fails".
Change of Target is played before resolution ("Only usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution.") and makes the action "ends (unsuccessfully)".
This should be equivalent to "the action fails". (same as below??)
Since the action should be considered as failed, it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA. Therefore modifiers and reactions should be allowed to be played after it?
Ruling making Change of Target relevant to NRA. [LSJ 20070709]
Based on the above vampire B in the below scenario should be allowed to play Cat´s Guidance.
A does a basic bleed. A passes the impulse to B.
B is locked and wakes with WwEF. Passes impulse back to A
A doesn't do anything. A passes the impulse to B
B attempts to block with the woken vampire. Passes impulse back to A
A doesn't do anything (doesn't add stealth). A passes the impulse to B.
B doesn't do anything. Passes impulse back to A.
As impulse is passed around without any cards/effects being played the bleed action is blocked.
A plays Change of Target, unlocks and the action ends (unsuccessfully). A passes the impulse to B.
B is locked and plays inferior Cat´s Guidance to unlock (should be allowed???)
Replied by inm8 on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
No, Change of Target ends the action. No action modifier or reaction cards can be played after.Just to be clear (sorry, I know we've been over and over the topic, but I want to make sure all the rulings I listed are good now):
Can the opponent play a Reaction (eg. Cats' Guidance) after you played Change of Target?
See also groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/CaderX6x79w/m/OfLzLcEYK4YJ
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/MIRAQ05Ag7E/m/ywRuvwOC46wJ
I´m in doubt here...
The above linked rulings seem to be irrelevant to me as they are from a time before the current text of Change of Target which has changed over time
"...when minion is blocked. ...cancel the current action..." ->
"...when this acting minion is blocked (play before combat, if any). ...end the current action (it is not successful)." -->
"...usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution. ...the action ends (unsuccessfully)."Earlier in this thread (see below quote), you say that "the action ends (unsuccessfully)" was the old template for "fails".
Change of Target is played before resolution ("Only usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution.") and makes the action "ends (unsuccessfully)".
This should be equivalent to "the action fails". (same as below??)
Since the action should be considered as failed, it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA. Therefore modifiers and reactions should be allowed to be played after it?
Ruling making Change of Target relevant to NRA. [LSJ 20070709]
So if you resolve the successful action or enter block-combat (or play some
other effect that is played when the action succeeds or when the action is
blocked), then the action has reached resolution.
This is the old templating. The card is played before resolution ("Only usable before any block attempts are made.") and makes the action "ends (unsuccessfully)".a)
Car bomb
"the action ends (unsecesfully)" does the paranthesis state that the action resolved unsucesfully, despite not reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?
This is equivalent to "the action fails".
Since the action fails, it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA.
Based on the above vampire B in the below scenario should be allowed to play Cat´s Guidance.
A does a basic bleed. A passes the impulse to B.
B is locked and wakes with WwEF. Passes impulse back to A
A doesn't do anything. A passes the impulse to B
B attempts to block with the woken vampire. Passes impulse back to A
A doesn't do anything (doesn't add stealth). A passes the impulse to B.
B doesn't do anything. Passes impulse back to A.
As impulse is passed around without any cards/effects being played the bleed action is blocked.
A plays Change of Target, unlocks and the action ends (unsuccessfully). A passes the impulse to B.
B is locked and plays inferior Cat´s Guidance to unlock (should be allowed???)
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18 Jan 2022 15:17 #104511
by Ankha
The answers provided above were relative to the NRA, not the possibility to play action modifiers or cards. Those are two different subjects.
When I wrote "This is equivalent to "the action fails".", it was for the matter of the NRA, not generally speaking.
I gave the exact definition of "the action fails" and "the action ends" (and their difference) in the same post.
Replied by Ankha on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
It's never a good idea to reopen a question if the question is different.
No, Change of Target ends the action. No action modifier or reaction cards can be played after.Just to be clear (sorry, I know we've been over and over the topic, but I want to make sure all the rulings I listed are good now):
Can the opponent play a Reaction (eg. Cats' Guidance) after you played Change of Target?
See also groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/CaderX6x79w/m/OfLzLcEYK4YJ
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/MIRAQ05Ag7E/m/ywRuvwOC46wJ
I´m in doubt here...
The above linked rulings seem to be irrelevant to me as they are from a time before the current text of Change of Target which has changed over time
"...when minion is blocked. ...cancel the current action..." -> "...when this acting minion is blocked (play before combat, if any). ...end the current action (it is not successful)." --> "...usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution. ...the action ends (unsuccessfully)."
Earlier in this thread (see below quote), you say that "the action ends (unsuccessfully)" was the old template for "fails".
Change of Target is played before resolution ("Only usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution.") and makes the action "ends (unsuccessfully)".
This should be equivalent to "the action fails". (same as below??)
Since the action should be considered as failed, it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA. Therefore modifiers and reactions should be allowed to be played after it?
The answers provided above were relative to the NRA, not the possibility to play action modifiers or cards. Those are two different subjects.
When I wrote "This is equivalent to "the action fails".", it was for the matter of the NRA, not generally speaking.
I gave the exact definition of "the action fails" and "the action ends" (and their difference) in the same post.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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18 Jan 2022 15:20 #104512
by Ankha
Sure, I'll publish an updated version of the official cardtexts.
Replied by Ankha on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
Please assume that Car Bomb says:
Requires a ready anarch.
Only usable before any block attempts are made. Lock this reacting minion. If the acting minion has a vehicle, the action {fails}, the vehicle is burned, and the acting minion takes 2 damage (not preventable). Otherwise, the action gets -1 stealth.
This is an errata to make the cards consistent (before the action is blocked => fails, once the action is blocked => ends).
So the action is subject to NRA and you can play Zephyr.
Should other similar cards be considered errated too? Unseen Hibernation, Scobax, Mistaken Identity (I think that's all...)
Sure, I'll publish an updated version of the official cardtexts.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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