file When does NRA apply/not apply

09 Oct 2021 09:14 - 09 Oct 2021 09:25 #103480 by Hobbesgoblin
a)
Car bomb

"the action ends (unsecesfully)" does the paranthesis state that the action resolved unsucesfully, despite not reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?

b)
secret passage

"the action fails" does the word "fail" imply that the action resolced unsucesfull, dsepite noit reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?

c)
kiss of ra

"the action ends" in the case tthat a) means that the action is subjecrted by NRA, is the paranthesis only a remainder, meaning Kiss of ra also ends (unsucesfully), or would this card need a rewording, to be in line with earlier rulings?

d)
Tangle Atropos Hand

"Cancel the action" Action did not reach resolution, and did not end. Does NRA apply?

e)
Champion

"The action fails and the acting monster enters combat with this imbued instead." In case that in b) NRA does not apply, does it apply here,sicne there is a combat, or is this combat unrelated to the action resolution?
Last edit: 09 Oct 2021 09:25 by Hobbesgoblin.

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09 Oct 2021 09:47 #103482 by lip
Replied by lip on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
In my opinion, it does not matter if the action "ends", "fails" or "is cancelled" when it comes down to the NRA question. NRA has to do with wether or not you reached action resolution (block resolution, or successful action resolution).

It seems we still need an RD input on a few of those though, I know I did not manage to convince some seasoned players on this ☺︎

a)
Car bomb

"the action ends (unsecesfully)" does the paranthesis state that the action resolved unsucesfully, despite not reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?


Did not reach resolution (action ends before block): no NRA

b)
secret passage

"the action fails" does the word "fail" imply that the action resolced unsucesfull, dsepite noit reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?


Did not reach resolution (action ends before block): no NRA

c)
kiss of ra

"the action ends" in the case tthat a) means that the action is subjecrted by NRA, is the paranthesis only a remainder, meaning Kiss of ra also ends (unsucesfully), or would this card need a rewording, to be in line with earlier rulings?


Did not reach resolution (action ends before block): no NRA

d)
Tangle Atropos Hand

"Cancel the action" Action did not reach resolution, and did not end. Does NRA apply?


Did not reach resolution (action ends before block): no NRA

e)
Champion

"The action fails and the acting monster enters combat with this imbued instead." In case that in b) NRA does not apply, does it apply here,sicne there is a combat, or is this combat unrelated to the action resolution?


Did not reach resolution (action ends before block): no NRA

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09 Oct 2021 12:15 - 14 Oct 2021 20:38 #103486 by Yomyael
Here are some examples already explained www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79001-the-question-of-the-month-action-fizzles

Ended actions and canceled actions do not reach resolution and are therefore not subjected to NRA edit: this is a bit oversimplified, see below for more details.

For failed actions see www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/78475-action-fails-what-happens-exactly#99087

it resolves without effect, therefore NRA applies.

Prince of Bonn, Germany
Last edit: 14 Oct 2021 20:38 by Yomyael.
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14 Oct 2021 18:51 - 14 Oct 2021 18:51 #103557 by lip
Replied by lip on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
Oh wow, I stand corrected, I was so wrong. Now I have no idea what happens to actions that just end or end unsuccessfully. Is that not failing? But NRA does not apply to Kiss of Ra, right? I'm confused.
Last edit: 14 Oct 2021 18:51 by lip.

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14 Oct 2021 20:38 #103559 by Yomyael
Failing and ending actions are not the same. I just realised, that my previous post does not seem to be entirely accurate.

Failing actions (for example through Hide the Heart or Secret Passage) resolve without effect. That is something different than ending actions.

Ending actions just end. If they were already blocked and the effect to end the action is played then (like Change of Target), NRA applies. That's why a minion playing Change of Target cannot use a cardless bleed after playing it on for example an inferior Govern. If they were not blocked at that point, like with Kiss of Ra (requires a block attempt and cancels that attempt), NRA does not apply, since the action ends before resolution.

For ending actions when a block is succesfull see: groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/qKrJPLXBFFw/m/hE5z511E_PgJ

For the other two cases see the links I posted earlier.

Prince of Bonn, Germany
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15 Oct 2021 07:57 #103562 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic When does NRA apply/not apply

Oh wow, I stand corrected, I was so wrong. Now I have no idea what happens to actions that just end or end unsuccessfully. Is that not failing? But NRA does not apply to Kiss of Ra, right? I'm confused.


yes because :

Example 4 - (card says the action ended, but no says what its resolution)
Minion A plays Kiss of Ra against another vampire. What happen with the resolution of the action?

The action was not blocked ("attempts to block"), so it did not reach resolution. It ends, so the action is over. The acting minion cannot play Freak Drive since there is no more ongoing action.


Thanks for answers Ankha. In the above case, if the minion manages to unlock (with Mylan or Abdelsobek for example) he can perform the same action again?

Example:

Minion A bleed with Legal Manipulations and play Kiss of Ra in response of block. Mylan unlock Minion A.

Can Minion A play Legal Manipulations again?

Yes, since the first action did not reach resolution.

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