Taste of Vitae and superior Telepathic Tracking
11 Apr 2022 17:10 - 11 Apr 2022 17:11 #104994
by Ankha
Once the press step is over, we get that piece of information, that is during the "end of round" step (which is the following step).
During the end of round step, you can play Taste of Vitae (cardtext) and/or Telepathic Tracking since the combat "would end" because no other effect makes it continue.
Please note that the new round is queued the same way it would be queued due to an uncancelled press to continue.
Replied by Ankha on topic Taste of Vitae and superior Telepathic Tracking
Both are the same question. And the answer was already provided ("yes").Can Taste of Vitae be played after superior Telepathic Tracking has been played?
Can superior Telepathic Tracking be played before Taste of Vitae is played?
The press step determines if another round of combat would occur, or if the combat would end.If it isn´t please explain the logic of how it can be considered the "same timing window"?
Once the press step is over, we get that piece of information, that is during the "end of round" step (which is the following step).
During the end of round step, you can play Taste of Vitae (cardtext) and/or Telepathic Tracking since the combat "would end" because no other effect makes it continue.
Please note that the new round is queued the same way it would be queued due to an uncancelled press to continue.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
11 Apr 2022 21:54 #104998
by inm8
It should have said:
The way I´m reading the text of TT (note that English isn´t my native language)
the text portion "combat would end" refers to the event of the combat ending and not to the point in time when the conclusion of whether the combat will continue or not is reached.
The reason for me reading it as per above is because normally all card effects are to be resolved immediately with the exception of actions, strikes, and effects that explicitly state a delay or when it resolves... which the text of TT doesn´t do...the text portion "Instead, start a new round." is a replacement effect which to me only seems natural and logical if resolving immediately that one would be in/at the "Combat Ends" step replacing it with "starting a new round instead".
Another reason for my reasoning is that the word "would" at times is used when being at the step as an interruption...I'm thinking of Left for Dead "Only usable when an ally would be burned in combat." which if I'm not mistaken the "burning" is supposed to be the immediate result (that is interrupted) when taking an ally to zero life
Similarly, Spying Mission,
The text of Left for Dead used to be "as an ally is burned", and the rewording to "would be burned" resulted in the timing of it being moved to be slightly earlier to not be able to trigger both it and FBI.
Psyche! is a confusing one as it is both "at the end of a round" and "combat is about to end", at least both of them are after "would end" placing Telepathic Tracking as ruled before it
The above is what makes me think that "would" comes before "is about to" which comes before "at the end" and clearly "Round Ends" is before "Combat Ends"
Please explain how come there is a difference made when it comes to "would end" and "is about to end" (TT vs Psyche!) but not between "would end" and "at the end" (TT vs ToV)?
Replied by inm8 on topic Taste of Vitae and superior Telepathic Tracking
You are right, they are the same....haha...I messed up one of the questions...it was to be the opposite order of course
Both are the same question. And the answer was already provided ("yes").Can Taste of Vitae be played after superior Telepathic Tracking has been played?
Can superior Telepathic Tracking be played before Taste of Vitae is played?
It should have said:
Can superior Telepathic Tracking be played after Taste of Vitae has been
played?
The press step determines if another round of combat would occur, or if the combat would end.If it isn´t please explain the logic of how it can be considered the "same timing window"?
Once the press step is over, we get that piece of information, that is during the "end of round" step (which is the following step).
During the end of round step, you can play Taste of Vitae (cardtext) and/or Telepathic Tracking since the combat "would end" because no other effect makes it continue.
Please note that the new round is queued the same way it would be queued due to an uncancelled press to continue.
The way I´m reading the text of TT (note that English isn´t my native language)
Only usable if both combatants are still ready and combat would end.
Instead, start a new round.the text portion "combat would end" refers to the event of the combat ending and not to the point in time when the conclusion of whether the combat will continue or not is reached.
The reason for me reading it as per above is because normally all card effects are to be resolved immediately with the exception of actions, strikes, and effects that explicitly state a delay or when it resolves... which the text of TT doesn´t do...the text portion "Instead, start a new round." is a replacement effect which to me only seems natural and logical if resolving immediately that one would be in/at the "Combat Ends" step replacing it with "starting a new round instead".
Another reason for my reasoning is that the word "would" at times is used when being at the step as an interruption...I'm thinking of Left for Dead "Only usable when an ally would be burned in combat." which if I'm not mistaken the "burning" is supposed to be the immediate result (that is interrupted) when taking an ally to zero life
Similarly, Spying Mission,
The text of Left for Dead used to be "as an ally is burned", and the rewording to "would be burned" resulted in the timing of it being moved to be slightly earlier to not be able to trigger both it and FBI.
Psyche! is a confusing one as it is both "at the end of a round" and "combat is about to end", at least both of them are after "would end" placing Telepathic Tracking as ruled before it
The above is what makes me think that "would" comes before "is about to" which comes before "at the end" and clearly "Round Ends" is before "Combat Ends"
Please explain how come there is a difference made when it comes to "would end" and "is about to end" (TT vs Psyche!) but not between "would end" and "at the end" (TT vs ToV)?
Left for Dead
Spying Mission
+1 stealth.
Only usable if a bleed would be successful. Instead, the bleed burns no pool, is unsuccessful, and this card is put on this vampire. The next time this vampire is about to successfully bleed the same Methuselah, burn this card and this vampire gets +2 bleed.
Psyche!
Press.
Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion.Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
12 Apr 2022 12:45 #105000
by Ankha
That is why TT must be played first, and if not, Psyche! can be played (because the combat is effectively going to end).
Replied by Ankha on topic Taste of Vitae and superior Telepathic Tracking
Yes.
You are right, they are the same....haha...I messed up one of the questions...it was to be the opposite order of course
Both are the same question. And the answer was already provided ("yes").Can Taste of Vitae be played after superior Telepathic Tracking has been played?
Can superior Telepathic Tracking be played before Taste of Vitae is played?
It should have said:Can superior Telepathic Tracking be played after Taste of Vitae has been played?
Ask yourself: "would the combat end now that noone presses to continue?" since the answer is "yes", you can play TT.
The press step determines if another round of combat would occur, or if the combat would end.If it isn´t please explain the logic of how it can be considered the "same timing window"?
Once the press step is over, we get that piece of information, that is during the "end of round" step (which is the following step).
During the end of round step, you can play Taste of Vitae (cardtext) and/or Telepathic Tracking since the combat "would end" because no other effect makes it continue.
Please note that the new round is queued the same way it would be queued due to an uncancelled press to continue.
The way I´m reading the text of TT (note that English isn´t my native language)
Only usable if both combatants are still ready and combat would end. Instead, start a new round.
the text portion "combat would end" refers to the event of the combat ending and not to the point in time when the conclusion of whether the combat will continue or not is reached.
I agree it can be disturbing since the card resolves immediately by "queing" a new round. I pondered using "queue a new round instead", but it would mean introducing a new term in the rulebook ("queuing rounds / queuing combats"). But maybe it would be better.The reason for me reading it as per above is because normally all card effects are to be resolved immediately with the exception of actions, strikes, and effects that explicitly state a delay or when it resolves... which the text of TT doesn´t do...the text portion "Instead, start a new round." is a replacement effect which to me only seems natural and logical if resolving immediately that one would be in/at the "Combat Ends" step replacing it with "starting a new round instead".
"would... instead" denotes only a replacement effect, it's not necessarily interrupting anything (eg., Visit from the Capuchin "Each time you would replace a card other than this card, instead burn 1 counter from this card.")Another reason for my reasoning is that the word "would" at times is used when being at the step as an interruption...I'm thinking of Left for Dead "Only usable when an ally would be burned in combat." which if I'm not mistaken the "burning" is supposed to be the immediate result (that is interrupted) when taking an ally to zero life
Correct. "is about to" applies to effect that are no longer subject to replacement effects (because everyone declined to play such an effect).The above is what makes me think that "would" comes before "is about to"
That is why TT must be played first, and if not, Psyche! can be played (because the combat is effectively going to end).
The "end of round" is the name of a combat step, it could be called "gong" or anything else that does not contain the word "end".which comes before "at the end" and clearly "Round Ends" is before "Combat Ends"
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
13 Apr 2022 12:04 #105005
by Ankha
I don't know if it seems natural, but the rulebook is pretty clear on that point.
Perhaps a paragraph about "starting a new round/combat" could be helpful.
Replied by Ankha on topic Taste of Vitae and superior Telepathic Tracking
Indeed, the rulebook says that the next step is "end of round", not "end of combat".
Ask yourself: "would the combat end now that noone presses to continue?" since the answer is "yes", you can play TT.
A problem is that the rules don't explicitly define when does the transition occur. If its not clearly defined, people get differing ideas and play according to them. It is natural to think (in my opinion) that if both players have declined a press to continue, then we move to next stage, the end of combat. This is however not defined in the rulebook.
I don't know if it seems natural, but the rulebook is pretty clear on that point.
Which step? "end of combat" step does not exist. During the "end of round", players can play cards according to the impulse rule.Some players have had different ideas and think that they can still play cards in that step even if both players have already passed.
Those have nothing to do with combat, I sense confusion here about the impulse, not the end of round step.There was argument the past week on discord about this. There are also the tricky cards that let players act on a different players turn ( madness network, enkil cog, etc)
The rulebook is quite clear about the steps.My point; things like this need to be clearly defined in the rules, because one players "obvious" is different from another player's.
Perhaps a paragraph about "starting a new round/combat" could be helpful.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.094 seconds
- You are here:
-
Home
-
Forum
-
V:TES Discussion
-
Rules Questions
- Taste of Vitae and superior Telepathic Tracking