Procurer recruiting another with The Shard
19 Jul 2023 05:21 #108741
by Bloodartist
But they can pay it when it costs 0.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Procurer recruiting another with The Shard
Maybe the rule is a bit redundant.
A minion already should be able to pay the cost of a card when he plays it (both checking the cost at announce and at pay time). Covered already by the rules.
A minion can not simply play a card that cannot pay. An ally cannot pay a card that cost blood.
But they can pay it when it costs 0.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
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19 Jul 2023 12:59 #108753
by Coyote
Replied by Coyote on topic Procurer recruiting another with The Shard
Actually, is what I am saying. Read my previous post. I am in the team #ProcuresCanRecruitProcuresUsingTheShard
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21 Jul 2023 06:24 - 21 Jul 2023 06:37 #108764
by Rathpex
Replied by Rathpex on topic Procurer recruiting another with The Shard
I was on the fence about this but after having a read of the rulebook, my stance would be as follows:
Blood Cost (from the rulebook):
A number in a red drop represents blood cost (the amount of blood the vampire must burn). Only a vampire with enough blood on them can play a card with a blood cost.
The Shard:
If you have the Edge, you can lock this card to reduce the cost of a card you play by 2 pool or blood.
Applying the rulebook to the card:
The Shard ability is used after the card is played. The Shard must target a card after it has already been played. However the Procurer is unable to play the recruitment action in the first instance as Only a vampire with enough blood on them can play a card with a blood cost..
A non vampire is unable to recruit an ally with a blood cost by using the shard. Similar to how treaty of Laibach does not work on a Tremere.
To work, the shard would have to target a card in hand and reduce its cost BEFORE its played.
Blood Cost (from the rulebook):
A number in a red drop represents blood cost (the amount of blood the vampire must burn). Only a vampire with enough blood on them can play a card with a blood cost.
The Shard:
If you have the Edge, you can lock this card to reduce the cost of a card you play by 2 pool or blood.
Applying the rulebook to the card:
The Shard ability is used after the card is played. The Shard must target a card after it has already been played. However the Procurer is unable to play the recruitment action in the first instance as Only a vampire with enough blood on them can play a card with a blood cost..
A non vampire is unable to recruit an ally with a blood cost by using the shard. Similar to how treaty of Laibach does not work on a Tremere.
To work, the shard would have to target a card in hand and reduce its cost BEFORE its played.
Last edit: 21 Jul 2023 06:37 by Rathpex.
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21 Jul 2023 09:33 #108765
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Procurer recruiting another with The Shard
No, you can use the Shard to reduce the cost of a card you couldn't play otherwise.Applying the rulebook to the card:
The Shard ability is used after the card is played. The Shard must target a card after it has already been played. However the Procurer is unable to play the recruitment action in the first instance as Only a vampire with enough blood on them can play a card with a blood cost..
A card that costs 0 blood doesn't cost blood at all. Thus, it can be played an ally.A non vampire is unable to recruit an ally with a blood cost by using the shard.
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21 Jul 2023 10:08 - 21 Jul 2023 10:14 #108767
by KoRneeshon
Replied by KoRneeshon on topic Procurer recruiting another with The Shard
I think I understand Rathpex reasoning.
Procurer costs 2 blood and you cannot reduce its cost before you play it, and, again from the rulebook:
Only a vampire with enough blood on them can play a card with a blood cost.
You cannot attempt something you can't do in hope that it will become legal later on.
Then again Shard can be used "to reduce card cost you play", so if it's supposed to be legally used in the described scenario, it seem that playing the card and checking if I can afford it is performed in the same window.
Procurer costs 2 blood and you cannot reduce its cost before you play it, and, again from the rulebook:
Only a vampire with enough blood on them can play a card with a blood cost.
You cannot attempt something you can't do in hope that it will become legal later on.
Then again Shard can be used "to reduce card cost you play", so if it's supposed to be legally used in the described scenario, it seem that playing the card and checking if I can afford it is performed in the same window.
Last edit: 21 Jul 2023 10:14 by KoRneeshon.
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23 Jul 2023 10:39 #108786
by Coyote
Replied by Coyote on topic Procurer recruiting another with The Shard
I guess is about timing
When you check if you can play a card?
When you decide the reduction cost?
If reduction cost goes before checking if you can play a card then you can play it as, when you check if you can play it, the cost, it is zero.
In case this is ruled (reductions goes before checking the card requisites) the procurer can use the shard to recruit another procurer.
When you check if you can play a card?
When you decide the reduction cost?
If reduction cost goes before checking if you can play a card then you can play it as, when you check if you can play it, the cost, it is zero.
In case this is ruled (reductions goes before checking the card requisites) the procurer can use the shard to recruit another procurer.
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