Change of clan, change of sect.

Ankha wrote:

inm8 wrote:

Here bleow is LSJ´s definition of whether a card imposes a permanent change or a temporary (layered) one which to me seems to be having contradictions when Derange was ruled to function similar to Clan Impersonation [PIB 20110807] [ANK 20200415]

LSJ wrote:

[...]
No, not "some sort", but a very specific sort: that is, if the thing
the card sets is changed, remove the card. The sort of thing that
makes the card work like Title cards. (Titles also do not layer.)

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/kGKWcs3k6vI/m/OSnx93gGyIsJ


Does this mean that the above is reversed

There are so many things above, I don't know exactly what you are refering to.
The clarification about Valerius vs Infernal Insurgent is correct.

inm8 wrote:

and we don´t have a clear definition of what makes a permanent effect vs a temporary (layered) effect ???

"changes clan", "becomes"... are permanent effects.
"the attached/this vampire is...", "is considered..." etc. are temporary effects (active as long as the card granting the effect is there).

I think it would be good if the linked rulings thread was read in full to get the whole picture.

Starting from here: groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/kGKWcs3k6vI/m/d0-6NhgEylsJ

One of the rulings there talks about eg Go Anarch being a permanent change and not as you are stating with the provided definition that it is temporary.

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/kGKWcs3k6vI/m/cOJHf2LFppoJ

text set to bold by me to highlight

Current text:
Name: Go Anarch
[Anarchs:C2/PAB4]
Cardtype: Action
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready non-titled, non-{A}narch vampire.
Put this card on the acting vampire and unlock this vampire. This vampire is considered {Anarch}. If this vampire changes sects, burn this card.

Text at the time of the ruling above:
Go Anarch
Type: Action
Requires: non-anarch,non-titled
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready non-titled, non-anarch vampire.
Put this card on the acting vampire and untap this vampire. This
vampire is considered anarch (and independent). If this vampire
changes sects, burn this card.

Ankha wrote:

lip wrote:

If a Caitiff has a Derange on him making him Malkavian and a Revelation of the Sire is played to make him Ventrue, does he stay Malkavian or become Ventrue?

He becomes Ventrue, since Revelation of the Sire was played last.

The principle stands (the latest temporary effect dominates), but I'd like to point out that these particular temporary effects can't occur in this order. Revelation of the Sire can't be played on the now-Malkavian vampire.

The errata are all good for the purpose of clarity for those cards, but what about the ruling providing the definition of what constitutes a permanent vs temporary change... the one provided by you Ankha isnt aligned with the one given by LSJ so are you reversing the latter?

Ankha wrote:

"changes clan", "becomes"... are permanent effects.
"the attached/this vampire is...", "is considered..." etc. are temporary effects (active as long as the card granting the effect is there).

vs.

LSJ wrote:

if the thing the card sets is changed, remove the card. The sort of thing that makes the card work like Title cards. (Titles also do not layer.)