Call of the Great Beast and self-contest

26 Jun 2026 08:55 #117277 by Kilrauko

Replied by Kilrauko on topic Call of the Great Beast and self-contest

mipopo3 wrote:
...

Regarding wording "action to bring a vampire in to play", I would like to call BS on this, as I have not seen this used in any card text (excluding Summoning History) and the rulebook in any shape or form, thus making this ruling from 2010 moot in today's game. ...

Except it is not moot is it not, we have

Ankha wrote:
...
BTW, all LSJ/Floppy rulings are valid, unless there's a more recent official ruling saying otherwise. I'm not sure why we would need a further confirmation.

There are no recent official rulings saying it is no longer valid. You can see the first Ankha reply on this topic has not been changed or edited. The 2010 ruling stands until it no longer does thanks to it receiving a REVERSAL. That won't happen by arguing in a rules question thread.

Just because you did not realize what making a vampire action is, does not mean it's not a thing that's been in the game ever since you could make vampires with actions. The Whole sterile mechanic is dependent on being restrictive over that action type. groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/3jinbBVvqIE/m/9QaMi2N1VeoJ

Call the Great Beast is doable. But the Sterile vampire cannot take the
final action that would make a vampire, so it's kinda pointless.
(Which keeps the ickyness of the prohibition on 11-cap steriles).

www.vekn.net/rulebook

Sterile: Sterile vampires cannot perform actions to put other vampires in play.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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Kilrauko
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Methuselah

26 Jun 2026 09:30 - 26 Jun 2026 10:44 #117278 by mipopo3

Replied by mipopo3 on topic Call of the Great Beast and self-contest

Kilrauko wrote:
www.vekn.net/rulebook
Sterile: Sterile vampires cannot perform actions to put other vampires in play.

Thanks for making my case for me.

All other cards regarding sterile vampires were updated, to contain "Requires a non-sterile".
And "actions to put other vampires in play" is only there as a reminder, not any real explanation, what i was referring to. That there is no explanation for what is an action to put a vampire in play is.
In this regard, Summoning History on superior cant be played by sterile vampire!?

Warning: Spoiler!

This is a clear case on text update for Call the Great Beast in needed.

Like i mentioned, it was a rule that was not finished, or it was reworded and lost. Thus it need a ruling update and as we can see, card text update.

Last edit: 26 Jun 2026 10:44 by mipopo3.

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mipopo3
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Elder

26 Jun 2026 17:05 #117280 by Kilrauko

Replied by Kilrauko on topic Call of the Great Beast and self-contest

mipopo3 wrote:

Kilrauko wrote:
www.vekn.net/rulebook
Sterile: Sterile vampires cannot perform actions to put other vampires in play.

Thanks for making my case for me.

All other cards regarding sterile vampires were updated, to contain "Requires a non-sterile".
And "actions to put other vampires in play" is only there as a reminder, not any real explanation, what i was referring to. That there is no explanation for what is an action to put a vampire in play is.
In this regard, Summoning History on superior cant be played by sterile vampire!?

Warning: Spoiler!

Search your crypt (shuffle afterward) and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire card with capacity X or less and put that vampire in play (with no blood).

This is a clear case on text update for Call the Great Beast in needed.

Like i mentioned, it was a rule that was not finished, or it was reworded and lost. Thus it need a ruling update and as we can see, card text update.

What case?

Me and Raw Recruit, that is literally in the all important *context*, along others stare in awe on how inability to read somehow results in me making some case for you? You're clearly not familiar with Undue influence and I wonder how you can imagine cards like The Portrait if you're unable to grasp how same action can have multiple outcomes and depending what their outcome is and when it is known in turn are used to determine what that action is and if it happens or can be attempted at all.

No matter how hard you try you cannot equate Summon history with it's search to this situation. How many "search" words are there in Call the Great Beast? See my first reply for the cardtext. Just because something happens first time for you and you have not heard it before does not mean it warrants rule and card text changes. Like I said earlier, this has quarter century behind it, it's been put to POD and received a checkup before that. Same with Undue Influence. Same with many other cards with rulings. It's how this Chain of Command works.

Name: Raw Recruit
[HttB:R/A2]
Cardtype: Action
Clan: Gargoyle
+1 stealth action. Requires a slave.
(D) Put this card in play and move a vampire in torpor to this card, face up and out of play. A vampire you control to whom this Gargoyle is enslaved can remove that vampire from the game as a +1 stealth action to turn this card into a Gargoyle with the same capacity, Fortitude [for], Potence [pot], Visceratika [vis] and flight [FLIGHT], enslaved to the acting vampire's clan and of the same sect as this Gargoyle.
Artist: Jim Pavelec

Name: Undue Influence
[KMW:C, POD:DTC]
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Chimerstry/Presence/Quietus
+1 stealth action. Requires an Anarch. Choose a vampire in your uncontrolled region.
[chi] (D) Move 1 blood from a crypt card in any uncontrolled region to the chosen vampire.
[pre] (D) Bleed. If the bleed is successful, add 1 blood to the chosen vampire.
[qui] Add 1 blood to the chosen vampire. If the amount of blood equals or exceeds their capacity, move them to your ready region.
Artist: Alexander Dunnigan

Name: The Portrait
[AH:R2, CE:R]
Cardtype: Action
Clan: Toreador
Cost: 1 blood
(D) Show the top card of your prey's crypt to all players. If it is a Nosferatu, this vampire burns 2 blood. If its cost is below 7, this vampire gains 2 blood (ignore excess blood); if it is from 7 to 10, this vampire unlocks and bleeds your prey with +1 bleed as a +1 stealth (D) action; if it is above 10, this vampire burns 1 blood.
Artist: Pete Venters

Name: Chain of Command
[Gehenna:C, KoT:C]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: X blood
Discipline: Dominate
+1 stealth action.
[dom] Put X younger vampires from your uncontrolled region in play with 1 blood from the blood bank each (and with any blood they already have). You cannot choose any unique vampires already in play. Those vampires must bleed. When one of them bleeds successfully, or when all that can bleed have, move them all to the bottom of your crypt.
[DOM] As above, but move X+1 younger vampires.
Artist: Joel Biske

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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Kilrauko
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Methuselah

26 Jun 2026 18:54 - 26 Jun 2026 19:20 #117281 by mipopo3

Replied by mipopo3 on topic Call of the Great Beast and self-contest

Kilrauko wrote:
... this has quarter century behind it ...

So did Pentex(TM) Subversion, and we all can see how it ended up.

Kilrauko wrote:
... you cannot equate Summon history ...

Sterile: Sterile vampires cannot perform actions to put other vampires in play.
Summoning History on superior (a bit shorter wording, but no change in location)
Search your crypt/ash heap for a vampire card and put that vampire in play.

I don't get it?

Name: Raw Recruit
[HttB:R/A2]
Cardtype: Action
Clan: Gargoyle
+1 stealth action. Requires a slave.
(D) Put this card in play and move a vampire in torpor to this card, face up and out of play. A vampire you control to whom this Gargoyle is enslaved can remove that vampire from the game as a +1 stealth action to turn this card into a Gargoyle with the same capacity, Fortitude [for], Potence [pot], Visceratika [vis] and flight [FLIGHT], enslaved to the acting vampire's clan and of the same sect as this Gargoyle.

Can't seem to find "actions to put other vampires in play" in here, wordin is, put this card, then move the existing vampire, then this card is transformed into a Gargoyle, and if you tell me that it's under the same sterile ruling, where a sterile vampire can't play this card, it's not a good look for you. In terms of what I would like to submit this card for rewording.

Last edit: 26 Jun 2026 19:20 by mipopo3.

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mipopo3
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Elder

26 Jun 2026 19:50 - 26 Jun 2026 19:52 #117282 by mipopo3

Replied by mipopo3 on topic Call of the Great Beast and self-contest

At the end of the day, as much as I do like to continue this back and forth, we still need to address the Call the Great Beast with new text

Warning: Spoiler!

And

"You cannot control more than one of the same unique card at a time, and you cannot voluntarily play a card that would trigger a contest with yourself (if some effect would force you to contest a card with yourself, then you simply burn the incoming copy of the unique card)." added in the rulebook