file Trap rewording

06 Aug 2018 20:58 #89717 by self biased
Replied by self biased on topic Trap rewording

Ankha wrote: At BCP, we are considering changing the text of Trap to:

Only usable before range is determined during the first round of combat.
Put this card in play with 3 counters. Each time a card is played this combat, add counters to this card until it has 3 counters. During the press step of each round this combat, this Trap automatically burns 1 counter from itself to provide 1 press to continue combat (either combatant can press to end combat). Burn this card at the end of combat.


The behavior is the same except that the card stays in play for the duration of the combat (not a big difference).

Do you find it clearer this way? If not why?


Yes, but I initially read it and said: "But trap doesn't work like that," so it's still confusing. I get the idea of counting down to something but the wording used feels super clunky to me. I'd prefer this:

Only usable before range is determined during the first round of combat.
Put this card into play. Trap provides an automatic press to continue during the press step each round of combat if it has two or less counters. At the end of each round of combat, put a counter on trap if neither combatant played a card during that round. Burn all counters on Trap if either combatant plays a card. Burn Trap at the end of combat.

That feels far more concise to me, because it states what the card does first and the conditions it does its thing, Then everything flows logically from there.

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06 Aug 2018 21:31 - 07 Aug 2018 00:39 #89718 by Ke.
Replied by Ke. on topic Trap rewording
I prefer the add counter approach also; what about this variation:

Only usable before range is determined during the first round of combat.
If this card has less than 3 counters it automatically provides a press to continue combat. Add a counter at end of each round. When a combat card is played this combat, remove all counters from this card. Burn this card at the end of combat.

It's less wordy and has simple behaviour: Add counter at end of round, remove all counters when card played.
Last edit: 07 Aug 2018 00:39 by Ke..
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06 Aug 2018 23:34 #89721 by Sambomb
Replied by Sambomb on topic Trap rewording

Original wrote: During the press step, if any Methuselah has played a card earlier in the current round or during the two previous rounds, the Trap automatically provides a press to continue (either combatant can press to end).

Proposed wrote: Put this card in play with 3 counters. Each time a card is played this combat, add counters to this card until it has 3 counters. During the press step of each round this combat, this Trap automatically burns 1 counter from itself to provide 1 press to continue combat (either combatant can press to end combat). Burn this card at the end of combat.


My rewording:
Only usable before range is determined during the first round of combat.
Put this card in play with 3 counters. Each time a combat card is successfully played, add 2 counters to this card (max 3 counters). During the press step of each round, this Trap automatically burns 1 counter from itself to provide 1 press to continue combat (either combatant can press to end combat). Burn this card at the end of combat or if it has no more counters.

- Adding 2 always bring it back do max since with zero counters it burns and is simple to track
- No need to repeat that the press is during this combat since it burns at the end of the combat
- You forgot to burn at the end of the counters to avoid that a new card after 3 press steps fill the trap again with 3 more counters.
- Changed the text to combat cards successfully played, instead of "cards" so direct intevention and others Out of Turn masters and even reflex cards can be playbed during combat but not trigger trap, this enable that you ( if not acting ) or a crosstable cancel a card to avoid the trap refill.

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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06 Aug 2018 23:44 #89724 by narpassword
Replied by narpassword on topic Trap rewording

Sambomb wrote:

Original wrote: During the press step, if any Methuselah has played a card earlier in the current round or during the two previous rounds, the Trap automatically provides a press to continue (either combatant can press to end).


- Changed the text to combat cards successfully played, instead of "cards" so direct intevention and others Out of Turn masters and even reflex cards can be playbed during combat but not trigger trap, this enable that you ( if not acting ) or a crosstable cancel a card to avoid the trap refill.


Is the goal not to keep it the same?

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07 Aug 2018 00:03 #89725 by Boris The Blade
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic Trap rewording

Kraus wrote: Counting down is more intuitive in that it's clearer that something 'ends' when things get to zero.

Problem is: Trap only counts one way. It resets the other way, so it is easier to put the reset on the 0 side rather than have to define an upper bound.
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07 Aug 2018 01:10 #89726 by narpassword
Replied by narpassword on topic Trap rewording

Boris The Blade wrote:

Kraus wrote: Counting down is more intuitive in that it's clearer that something 'ends' when things get to zero.

Problem is: Trap only counts one way. It resets the other way, so it is easier to put the reset on the 0 side rather than have to define an upper bound.


Definitely agree. Dreams counts up anyway, we can manage that card fine.
I like Ke's wording the most:

Only usable before range is determined during the first round of combat.

If this card has less than 3 counters it automatically provides a press to continue combat. Add 1 counter at end of each round <of combat>. When any combat card is played this combat, remove all counters from this card. Burn this card at the end of combat.

id change 'a' to 1, specify each round 'of combat', and make sure it gets counters wiped by all cards, not just combat cards.

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