file Combat as a strategy

04 Sep 2019 12:12 - 04 Sep 2019 12:14 #96785 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Combat as a strategy

When I play deflection usual scenario will be that my prey will be "ded", some obscure corner case scenario, which I see coming from at least turn before, will be not so good.

Deflection is such a common strategy that when you bleed and don't have something to counter that is just silly. As silly as playing combat without taking S:CE into consideration.

These days I won't even bother making a bleed deck unless I have an answer to bounce. That's something the meta evolves and has evolved into.

Enkil Cog + DI for bounce is common place. Touch of Clarity is finally available to everyone. Narrow Minds and Libertas kills Deflection. Auspex is cancelled by, like 5 cards ranging Obfuscate, Chimestry and Daimonion. A simple Misdirection can mean you take an oust in any bleed deck.

It's not corner case. Saying it is is over simplifying things. I find it odd you refuse to see the similarity.

Whenever I make a deck, I will look at the options to counter my counters: bounce denial when bleeding, Delaying denying (see Approximation of Loyalty) and vote push in political, and getting past S:CE in combat. The options are there for all strategies.

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Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 12:14 by Kraus.

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04 Sep 2019 12:12 #96786 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Combat as a strategy
Is there a bug in this forum that make the vast majority of my posts disappear from Elotar computer ?

I otherwise can't understand how Elotar NEVER answers to my querries because, well, he said that he addresses the points which are made with some arguments.

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04 Sep 2019 12:25 #96787 by Boris The Blade

Bloodartist wrote: Honestly, I think a simple solution to the DI and timewindows issue would be for black chantry to simply alter the rules so that DI is played after the played card is replaced. I mean, its gonna be replaced ANYWAY, why not replace it in a way that doesn't cause million gameplay issues. And I mean changing it this way, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE gameplay wise. Its just ???? why not do it. This way, people could just play their cards and there would be no huge issue if you needed to backtrack.

There would be some minor impact on the As Announced window and effects that require another card from your hand (e.g. Concealed Weapon,) but nothing unworkable. One must simply rule that if the main card gets DIed, then all the other cards played / shown as part of the announcement go the to the ash heap with it.

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04 Sep 2019 12:27 - 04 Sep 2019 12:28 #96788 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Combat as a strategy

Kraus wrote: Deflection is such a common strategy that when you bleed and don't have something to counter that is just silly.


The way to counter deflection is an understanding when you should bleed for 6 (and when not), not plaguing the deck with bullshit silver bullets. It's a second problem of degenerating play environment - players forget how to play the game properly and begin to just bruteforce problems.

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Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 12:28 by elotar.

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04 Sep 2019 12:31 #96789 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Combat as a strategy

elotar wrote: ...rare lucky scenario that I will lose 1 blood against opponent loosing nothing.


Two opinions here that I would disagree with:

(1) Playing Majesty without it being countered by a combat deck is a "rare lucky scenario": I think you're inflating things a bit. With combat being very card intensive, It's actually quite common for a combat deck to not draw the cards needed to foil Majesty at the exact time one may play Majesty. Drawing the needed counter is more of a 50/50 proposition rather than a 90/10. In other words, half the time, your Majesty will likely not be countered. Even though it may seem like 1 or 2 times out of 10, it's not really that rare or lucky to have a Majesty played without being countered.

(2): That losing 1 blood and the opposing minion losing nothing being a less than ideal outcome: I think you may not realize how incredibly disruptive a non-countered Majesty is to a combat deck? If your Majesty is not countered, the combat deck's hand is likely jammed with unusable combat cards and has no way to flush them out. This is a much more advantageous position for the Majesty player than you're giving credit for.
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04 Sep 2019 12:32 - 04 Sep 2019 12:32 #96790 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Combat as a strategy

Boris The Blade wrote:

Bloodartist wrote: Honestly, I think a simple solution to the DI and timewindows issue would be for black chantry to simply alter the rules so that DI is played after the played card is replaced. I mean, its gonna be replaced ANYWAY, why not replace it in a way that doesn't cause million gameplay issues. And I mean changing it this way, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE gameplay wise. Its just ???? why not do it. This way, people could just play their cards and there would be no huge issue if you needed to backtrack.

There would be some minor impact on the As Announced window and effects that require another card from your hand (e.g. Concealed Weapon,) but nothing unworkable. One must simply rule that if the main card gets DIed, then all the other cards played / shown as part of the announcement go the to the ash heap with it.

A major nerf to Concealed Weapon, as there are other 'cancel combat card' effects as well (Death Seeker etc.), but very doable.

Then again, are there really any real drawbacks to just saying 'DI!' just after the player replaced? Other than etiquette. Personally I see the 'before replace' window as a nice theoretical window for players to call out for when it (as is bound to happen) passes every now and then. No harm done if replaces happen, but a clear window to backtrack to.

It would probably help the small BCP crew if you guys help them map as many card interactions that would require attention if that change is proposed. :)

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Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 12:32 by Kraus.

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