file Combat as a strategy

11 Sep 2019 10:48 #96930 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Combat as a strategy

Tadori wrote: In my opinion is it's easy you just add to enter combat cards an oust.

"If any vampire goes to torpor as a resolution of this action its controller losses X Blood"

I know it doesn't resolve going into torpor problem but will speed things up.


There's a reason why things like this haven't been incorporated into the game. It's better for the player to choose whether they want to lose the pool. Bringing out more vampires is analogous to losing pool.

I'm convinced everybody who claims that having all minions in torpor is a problem either forgets there's an influence phase (ie, where you can "take" a 4+ pool loss to speed things along), doesn't understand the play to win rule (ie, perceiving an inability to transfer pool because it puts them in a riskier position to lose, which is not restricted by the play to win rule), or doesn't like any of the longer, less "risky" strategies involved when all their minions are in torpor (ie, negotiating cross-table rescues or just waiting to see what happens).

In other words, whether having all minions in torpor is a problem is a matter of personal opinion. Strategies to get around this "problem" currently do exist.

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11 Sep 2019 13:21 #96942 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Combat as a strategy

TwoRazorReign wrote:
I'm convinced everybody who claims that having all minions in torpor is a problem either forgets there's an influence phase (ie, where you can "take" a 4+ pool loss to speed things along), doesn't understand the play to win rule (ie, perceiving an inability to transfer pool because it puts them in a riskier position to lose, which is not restricted by the play to win rule), or doesn't like any of the longer, less "risky" strategies involved when all their minions are in torpor (ie, negotiating cross-table rescues or just waiting to see what happens).

In other words, whether having all minions in torpor is a problem is a matter of personal opinion. Strategies to get around this "problem" currently do exist.


Well, with this mindset you could say nothing is a problem cuz I can just pick up my cards and go home any time I want. Nothing in life could be problematic at all since I can jump off a bridge. This is pretty flimsy logic.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kushiel

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11 Sep 2019 13:58 #96943 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Combat as a strategy
Care to elaborate why you would think taking cards and going home or jumping off a bridge is analogous to anything I said in my post? My logic doesn't appear to me to be any more flimsy than whatever it is you are trying to say in your reply.

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11 Sep 2019 14:09 #96944 by LivesByProxy
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic Combat as a strategy

Mewcat wrote: Well the enter combat actions are garbage. Combat is the result of a failed action. Deep song is a guide to a proper rush action.


It really surprises me that it took so long to see a rush action that locks the guy you are rushing. Also, Potence does not have a single rush action... why???

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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11 Sep 2019 14:45 #96945 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Combat as a strategy

TwoRazorReign wrote: Care to elaborate why you would think taking cards and going home or jumping off a bridge is analogous to anything I said in my post? My logic doesn't appear to me to be any more flimsy than whatever it is you are trying to say in your reply.


Sure. If my guys are taking g a dirt nap and my solution is xferring out that is the same as quitting.

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11 Sep 2019 15:13 - 11 Sep 2019 15:18 #96946 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Combat as a strategy
Okay, that's a more intelligible reply. The point is you have strategic choices at your disposal still if all your minions are in torpor. You can transfer out if you've believe if you've already lost, which is not the same as quitting (chances are, if you have no minions, you've already lost). You can also take the "wait and see" approach if you think you have a chance to do something.

It's one thing if you don't like these strategic options. That's your opinion. But let's quit the argument there's some sort of design flaw because the player "can't play the game" when all their minions are in torpor.
Last edit: 11 Sep 2019 15:18 by TwoRazorReign.

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