file Why celerity is such a bad discipline ?

04 Sep 2020 17:14 #100688 by Lech
Ok, so a year passed. :pot: get new card that increased it's efficiency, basically making some of the old strikes obsolete.

Question is, what is preventing :cel: from getting the same treatment ? Is it CONCEALED WEAPON ? If yes, fine, nerf concealed weapon to 1 cost and buff celerity.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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05 Sep 2020 17:29 #100694 by ReverendRevolver

Lech wrote: Ok, so a year passed. :pot: get new card that increased it's efficiency, basically making some of the old strikes obsolete.

Question is, what is preventing :cel: from getting the same treatment ? Is it CONCEALED WEAPON ? If yes, fine, nerf concealed weapon to 1 cost and buff celerity.


Theres a whole thread on what holds it back. Concealed weapon and 44 magnum are arguably the only things that make :CEL: work. :cel: needs help because the cards that make superior good aren't as useable as equivalents in :ani: :pot: playable at both levels. Nerfing the only thing the discipline is good at doesn't make it better.

The design space target should be improvements that make the whole thing suck less, while being additive/not impactful to established guns decks using :CEL: . So, giving :cel: a purpose outside of being half the requirement for forced march is still the trick.

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05 Sep 2020 20:59 #100700 by Lech

ReverendRevolver wrote: Theres a whole thread on what holds it back. Concealed weapon and 44 magnum are arguably the only things that make :CEL: work. :cel: needs help because the cards that make superior good aren't as useable as equivalents in :ani: :pot: playable at both levels. Nerfing the only thing the discipline is good at doesn't make it better.

The design space target should be improvements that make the whole thing suck less, while being additive/not impactful to established guns decks using :CEL: . So, giving :cel: a purpose outside of being half the requirement for forced march is still the trick.


Basically it's used for 3 main things:

Anarch tech (Diversion, Guardian's Vigil, Make the Misere)

.44 tech (Psyche!, Pursuit, Blur, Sideslip, Infernal Pursuit) - also for Torn Signpost/IG in reduced numbers.

Multi-acting with other disciplines (Forced March, Instanteous Transformation, Flurry of Actions).

Also there are some +stealth (Resist) or vote tech (Scalpes) using cel in some capacity.

Acrobatics ? Not used (Ok, maybe Miller might use some)
Alacrity ? Not used at all.
Aversion ? Not even in twda.
Backstab ? Entire first strike in celerity and quietus is one big fiasco.
Cat Burglary ? It's not a bad idea, execution however is way better done in :dem:
Distraction ? It's not bad idea again, but other disciplines have better lock a target cards that work at inferior.
Dust up ? It's decent card, it's quite surprising it isn't played more.
Fleetness ? It's ok, but not played much as there are better rushes.
Hell-for-Leather ? It's playable, but mostly for :obt: or :ani: level.
Keystone Kine ? To be playable, need all 3 levels and specific meta.
Lightning Reflexes ? It's Goratrix/that 8 cap lasombra card.
Mercury's Arrow ? Utter trash.
Nimble Feet ? It have useless inferior, and superior you can play only after enemy strikes. It's the worst out of Pursuit/Side Strike/Nimble Feet trinity.
Precision ? You need forward information to make it work.
Preternatural Evasion ? Not used recently, other disciplines have better s:ce
Projectile ? It's not bad card per se, but dodges are quite rare, and you already chose to strike with .44 earlier. It can possibly offer some value over other cards when used when blocking, but other cards are more reliable.
Quicken Sight is sometimes used.
Quickness ? There is no point using quickness over blur in 99% of cases.
Rapid Thoughts ? It's worse than Flash.
Riposte ? Not even in TWDA.
Rooftop Shadow ? One of the worst intercepts.
Sanguinary Wind ? Not in TWDA, speak about how awesome it is.
Side Strike ? Playable, but worse than Pursuit in most cases.
Speed of Thoughts ? Woah, another true wallpaper.
Stutter-step ? Playable in some aggro-poke. But not really that powerful card.
Torrent ? It's not total wallpaper, but it's very specific card.
Vampiric Speed ? It's not that bad, but there are countless better cards for what it want to do.
Zephyr ? Playable in fringe decks.

Overall, from played combat cards, they offer next to no power at inferior (press, press, maneuver, maneuver with press for 1 blood, additional strike for 1 blood). Nothing out of those scream "i'm worth it baby". It's not +2 damage on close from roundhouse, it's not 1 environmental from Carrion crows, it's not prevent entire strike for 1 blood, it's not grapple preventing s:ce and other nasty strikes for 0 blood. Playing just celerity don't make you even make good trades when you have inferior and no innate damage boost, and in most cases you are better off using other discipline instead or just use disciplineless combat (wws/guns+ target:vitals and taste of vitae offer more than what you get from celerity.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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