Making Aye and Orun Work

Ancestor's Vigilance
Reaction
Requires Auspex.
Requires a Laibon.
This vampire gains +1 intercept on actions, +2 if they have any Orun.
As above, but this vampire may burn 1 blood to cancel 1 card requiring [chi], [obf] or [obt] as it is played. They may use this ability twice if they have any Orun.

Spirit Ties
Action Modifier
1 blood
Requires Auspex. Requires a Laibon.
If this Laibon has 3 or more Orun reduce the cost of this card by 1 blood.
Only usable when a younger vampire is attempting to block. That block attempt fails and that vampire cannot make another attempt this action. As above and +1 bleed. You cannot play other action modifiers to increase this bleed.

I really like the Rule Change to Convictions idea for Aye and Orun. To play them at each untap phase from hand and ash heap, and then search out from hand or library when coming into play, would be a nice compromise of the two ideas floating here. It already meshes with the already familiar Imbued rule for Convictions, while shifting Aye/Orun from being "three part masters to do anything cool" to being a recursive sect benefit. However given their threshold requirement, I doubt it would be as disruptive as convictions, especially since Laibon still need blood to leave torpor.

During your untap phase, you may play 1 Aye or Orun on each of your Laibon. You may play these cards from your hand or from your ash heap. When a Laibon enters play, he may gain 1 Aye or Orun from your library, hand or ash heap.

Searching out your library is slowed at the speed of influencing out vampires (or Bamba), yet already present Aye and Orun in your hand or ash heap can speed up game setup. With that rule change you can also leave them as master trifles, as you can stack three onto one vampire upon the start of their first turn after influenced out. Influence out gets one, start of next turn gets another, and you can play one -- then you're ready to go!

The RPG mechanics reason for why you shouldn't make them a 'Laibon Conviction' is purely because they are Paths. For those of you who may have dabbled in VtM:Bloodlines on computer... it is a double-humanity rating. You don't just wake up on Thursday night with more Aye... you earn it. So I wouldn't want to make them anything like a conviction. Conviction is spiritual mojo points, potentially far closer to a Mana Points idea than a Path rating.

Yes, these two cards need a more accessible way to enter play.
Yes, Aye needs something far more impressive.
Yes, maybe none of the ideas proposed already has enough gusto in them to make them worthwhile.

And thats why aye and orun shoulda been path type cards that go on a minion instead of "stack for a bigger hat" style cards. But, until the DT gets around to a laibon set, im not sure any change is worth making yet.

Putting them as a "One on a Minion" then gets you the next problem of "What do you waste to drive the Path?"

At the moment its MPAs and Cardslots. Would you prefer to make it actions?

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Putting them as a "One on a Minion" then gets you the next problem of "What do you waste to drive the Path?"

At the moment its MPAs and Cardslots. Would you prefer to make it actions?

Id prefer redo the entire concept, if we were in print.

Since we arent, i dont see a pressing need to change the rules about them, but the fact is its alot of work now, and with minimal payoff.

If we are looking at redoing it, or changing rules, several viable, or almost viable sugtestions have been made.

My primary issue right now is its clunky, thematically doesnt mesh with other representations of morality trait stuff, and we have limited motivation to use it.

Make them like a dagger (one from yoir hand gets one from your ash heap) and they get more playable, but still not great.