What no sticky?

direwolf wrote:

Wow that is a lot of non-information -_-

Agreed.

You: "I want access to information kept away from the public".
Solution: "Join private discussions."

See also: V:EKN Prince-only forum, V:EKN National Coordinator forum

Note: I'm a V:EKN critic, not a member privy to the private discussions. (See also, 400+ posts by specific individuals that you can't find in the public forums.)

www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/stats

Adonai wrote:

direwolf wrote:

Wow that is a lot of non-information -_-

Agreed.

You: "I want access to information kept away from the public".
Solution: "Join private discussions."

See also: V:EKN Prince-only forum, V:EKN National Coordinator forum

Note: I'm a V:EKN critic, not a member privy to the private discussions. (See also, 400+ posts by specific individuals that you can't find in the public forums.)

www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/stats

I have to say, I don't want access to information that is kept from the public. I want access to information that is public. It seems there is none. And if my buggering gets in the way of actual progress made, just tell me to shut up

direwolf wrote:

What is the purpose of designing new cards? A lot of the cards people suggest are "fixes" to something they see wrong with the game. But we have to think about creating new deck strategies or evolving existing strategies. Do we need more basic cards that expand on the base set, or are they all specialized?

I think you should make a new thread with this text, titled "I'm curious about the design process" and see what everyone, secretly-members of the design team or not, has to say about it. You won't get any of the answers you've asked for from your previous posts in this thread, since you aren't part of the design team, and that means you likely won't receive an "official" answer, but it may be a fun topic.

direwolf wrote:

Also, part of the point about the questions I'm asking, if there is a discussion about how to continue the game (if possible) is that I'd like to at least know what is being said and get involved if that's possible.

What do you mean "about how to continue the game"? If you mean how to attract and retain your player base, there have been topics on that,and you can start a new topic yourself and receive lots and lots of help. If you mean something about printing new cards, well, you aren't going to get any of that information.

direwolf wrote:

I'd rather be in the know than be surprised if there is an official announcement after months/years of backdoor discussion.

Well, you're going to have to join the rest of us in waiting. Patience is a virtue, etc.

direwolf wrote:

If the only thing that happens is that some people who are involved in the design of the game and makes them think about it, then I will be satisfied.

As I said, I am sure that all of the design team reads this forum and is aware of everything you are saying and doing. So they are thinking about your ideas and questions, just like you want them to.

Direwolf, you should look at this recent thread where we discuss exactly what you are asking for, a sort of framework for developing a new expansion: vekn.net/index.php/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/8713-new-expansion-and-card-ideas

I have tried to formulate my take on the process that should be used when working on a new expansion. The below is what it looks like so far after comments from the forum. Below each point is inserted people's input in the thread.

1. THEME FOR EXPANSION? e.g. develop WoD background?

-- follow existing themes

2. NEW GAME MECHANICS?

-- not for now

3. NEW CARDS: crypt and library - any areas that need additions/improvement? any revisions required?

-- no revisions. More G5 Sabbat vampires, more G6 vampires, expand research area mechanism, improve trophy mechanism, e.g. expand Bahari mechanism

4. FORMAT AND PRACTICAL STUFF

-- size of expansion(20-30?), frequency of publication, production, funding (prepaid by players?), distribution (via princes/direct sale?), status of new cards (promo? unofficial/official?), price, rights to publish new cards.


I agree that this should be a sticky and that it would be great if everybody using this forum would comment on this post. So far, there has been no involvement (as far as I know) in this discussion from VEKN. But I think its important that we in the player community discuss and develop our ideas in this area. I assume that any new expansions will be managed by VEKN (and will in any event have to be sanctioned by them), but our input is important - as VTES is now a community driven game, we should all lift together.

In my mind, the main obstacle at the moment is rights issues (White Wolf and Wizards of the Coast) - see the quoted thread for my post on this.

KevinM, I dont agree at all with your take on this. I think we have a unique opportunity to harness the combined creativity and intellect of the player community, and I would strongly encourage that that opportunity is used if a new expansion is in the making.

Assuming that no other company will take over VTES and print new cards, there will no longer be a commercial structure supporting the production of new cards. I cannot see how anyone except the players themselves can fund the printing of a new edition (see my previous posts on funding and costs in a different thread). If that is so, there needs to be some form of communication and interaction between VEKN and the player community. In my mind, that is the only way to maintain VEKN's authority as card creator instead of White Wolf, and the only way to ensure the buy-in from players across the planet needed to fund and accept the validity of new expansions.

VEKN is a great institution for sanctioning new cards and for making the final decisions on how the cards should be worded etc. However, as you see from this forum, there is a lot of creative thought and energy put into the development of new cards by players OUTSIDE VEKN. Aside from being elitist and divisive at a point in time where VTES needs more than ever for the community to stand together, I also think it would be simply a waste not to use that energy and thought in a productive way.

I have seen post lamenting the fact that the VEKN people are very busy, and dont have time to reply to forum posts. Thats fine with me and I'll be the first to thank them for the work they put in - but if that is the case, they should let the player community do the legwork like we are doing now (and can I just say, WOW there are some mental people out there doing some mental stuff when it comes to card design - you guys rock and thanks for sharing in this thread...)

cnislev wrote:

KevinM, I dont agree at all with your take on this. I think we have a unique opportunity to harness the combined creativity and intellect of the player community, and I would strongly encourage that that opportunity is used if a new expansion is in the making.

And who decides what is good and what is bad creativity? Have you SEEN some of those horribly unbalanced cards that are being created by the "player community"?

cnislev wrote:

Assuming that no other company will take over VTES and print new cards, there will no longer be a commercial structure supporting the production of new cards. I cannot see how anyone except the players themselves can fund the printing of a new edition (see my previous posts on funding and costs in a different thread). If that is so, there needs to be some form of communication and interaction between VEKN and the player community. In my mind, that is the only way to maintain VEKN's authority as card creator instead of White Wolf, and the only way to ensure the buy-in from players across the planet needed to fund and accept the validity of new expansions.

Printing new cards would cause Hasbro to sue the VEKN for copyright infringement and violation, so I'm 100% sure that will never, ever happen. Which is why there has been talk of a free PDF set being the way to go.

cnislev wrote:

VEKN is a great institution for sanctioning new cards and for making the final decisions on how the cards should be worded etc. However, as you see from this forum, there is a lot of creative thought and energy put into the development of new cards by players OUTSIDE VEKN. Aside from being elitist and divisive at a point in time where VTES needs more than ever for the community to stand together, I also think it would be simply a waste not to use that energy and thought in a productive way.

Again: who decides what is good and what is bad creativity?

The mere existence of energy doesn't mean that it is necessarily productive (see: ADHD) nor does the loss of energy necessarily mean it was wasted.

cnislev wrote:

I have seen post lamenting the fact that the VEKN people are very busy, and dont have time to reply to forum posts. Thats fine with me and I'll be the first to thank them for the work they put in - but if that is the case, they should let the player community do the legwork like we are doing now (and can I just say, WOW there are some mental people out there doing some mental stuff when it comes to card design - you guys rock and thanks for sharing in this thread...)

What do you want the VEKN leadership to respond to? Every single card idea and subsequent modification posted on this forum? What posts should they respond to that they haven't?