What no sticky?

Everyone should just stop making anything for this game. The players who are making an effort to bring new ideas and cards to the game (no matter how good or bad) should stop immediately. The VEKN leadership are slow to lead as we haven't gotten anything from the him/her/them/it. So they should stop too.

Everything should just stop....that way we can stop having these roundabout discussions that don't go anywhere.

wow thanks for all the responses and the information... I seem to have stirred some stuff up! I hope it's a good kind of stirring up...

Back to the original thought behind why I started this thread: we could use a few stickies. Like that thread cnislev linked? Should be stickied.

Also, is there a particular format for submitting cards, and replying with feedback for the cards? I see some conventions forming with what has been posted so far.

I've seen some mentions of other people making home cards, but I don't know who they are and where to find other homebrew cards. Could someone who knows more about where to find these on the internet start a list of them and sticky it? I can't count the number of times I've had an "original" idea that someone thought up first that I didn't know about.

Don't get me wrong, but I'd volunteer myself to do some organizing if I thought I was qualified. I'm full of questions, not solutions.

KevinM wrote:

cnislev wrote:

KevinM, I dont agree at all with your take on this. I think we have a unique opportunity to harness the combined creativity and intellect of the player community, and I would strongly encourage that that opportunity is used if a new expansion is in the making.

And who decides what is good and what is bad creativity? Have you SEEN some of those horribly unbalanced cards that are being created by the "player community"?

cnislev wrote:

Assuming that no other company will take over VTES and print new cards, there will no longer be a commercial structure supporting the production of new cards. I cannot see how anyone except the players themselves can fund the printing of a new edition (see my previous posts on funding and costs in a different thread). If that is so, there needs to be some form of communication and interaction between VEKN and the player community. In my mind, that is the only way to maintain VEKN's authority as card creator instead of White Wolf, and the only way to ensure the buy-in from players across the planet needed to fund and accept the validity of new expansions.

Printing new cards would cause Hasbro to sue the VEKN for copyright infringement and violation, so I'm 100% sure that will never, ever happen. Which is why there has been talk of a free PDF set being the way to go.

cnislev wrote:

VEKN is a great institution for sanctioning new cards and for making the final decisions on how the cards should be worded etc. However, as you see from this forum, there is a lot of creative thought and energy put into the development of new cards by players OUTSIDE VEKN. Aside from being elitist and divisive at a point in time where VTES needs more than ever for the community to stand together, I also think it would be simply a waste not to use that energy and thought in a productive way.

Again: who decides what is good and what is bad creativity?

The mere existence of energy doesn't mean that it is necessarily productive (see: ADHD) nor does the loss of energy necessarily mean it was wasted.

cnislev wrote:

I have seen post lamenting the fact that the VEKN people are very busy, and dont have time to reply to forum posts. Thats fine with me and I'll be the first to thank them for the work they put in - but if that is the case, they should let the player community do the legwork like we are doing now (and can I just say, WOW there are some mental people out there doing some mental stuff when it comes to card design - you guys rock and thanks for sharing in this thread...)

What do you want the VEKN leadership to respond to? Every single card idea and subsequent modification posted on this forum? What posts should they respond to that they haven't?

I think the key word here is "harness". Players come up with ideas, they get feedback, and VEKN/design team takes it onboard and tweaks/game tests before sanctioning and e.g. printing. This may happen already, but as I've said this should happen openly.

If energy and time is limited, and if energy can be harnessed (e.g. in the manner I have mentioned above), then a gain can be made

You must know the Hasbro management team and their legal department very well, and you must also be a specialist IP lawyer to come to this conclusion. Even if you are, you should remember that it shouldnt be too difficult to build a structure that would be difficult to sue, and which would in any event have no or few assets against which a lawsuit could be enforced which would make the legal spend very high, not to mention the bad PR from suing a player community that just wants to develop (not to make a profit) a game they love and which they have built through two decades. If I were Hasbro, I would think twice. If on top of that they are given an offer (say x cents per card printed), I would expect them to at least consider it. It is not as black and white as you say.


All I would like to see from VEKN would be a general statement about how the development of cards will take place/what their strategy for the game will be in the next couple of years. I would also like them to e.g. approve of sticky threads where players can give their input and opinions on what they would like to see in new expansions, and an assurance that this will be taken into account by VEKN.
VEKN needs to maintain its authority and connection to the community. The NCs and princes are not democratically elected (at least not in my country), and neither is VEKN/the design team as I understand it. This may be fine, but then VEKN/the design team needs to gain authority and acceptance by engaging with and involving the community in another way.
People like glaswanderer have come up with really cool cards artwork (I would rate most of it top 30% all time VTES) and some good cards. The very minimum that should be done by VEKN would be to recognise this effort, e.g. by the above sticky and public statements.

(empty)

KevinM wrote:

And who decides what is good and what is bad creativity? Have you SEEN some of those horribly unbalanced cards that are being created by the "player community"?

I've seen plenty of very interesting, thematic and (on the paper only, since no one has tried any playtesting yet) balanced cards. Plenty of bad ones, obviously, but I'm not that pessimistic.

Printing new cards would cause Hasbro to sue the VEKN for copyright infringement and violation, so I'm 100% sure that will never, ever happen. Which is why there has been talk of a free PDF set being the way to go.

I suppose you're assuming again. What I would be interested in, is what kinds of modifications or legal announcements should be printed in the cards to make it legal to print them.

Just being curious, is all. The .pdf distribution will -most likely- be the best option. But not neccessarily.

Again: who decides what is good and what is bad creativity?

The mere existence of energy doesn't mean that it is necessarily productive (see: ADHD) nor does the loss of energy necessarily mean it was wasted.

Sooo much bad vibes. I really have a lot of faith in community driven work, and in that some forms of organization is bound to form up eventually. And I could see this happening in VEKN pretty quickly.

It's funny, though, to notice that it seems I'm not the only one thinking this.

What do you want the VEKN leadership to respond to? Every single card idea and subsequent modification posted on this forum? What posts should they respond to that they haven't?

You're nibbling on the details. I think you have been answered already: Any piece of information of organization or status would be welcome. And, after the initial invoice, let's just see where things evolve.

I really don't think aksing people for immediate answers to every single problem that might arise, or will be on the horizon, is very fruitful.

Also, is there a particular format for submitting cards, and replying with feedback for the cards? I see some conventions forming with what has been posted so far.

I think conventions should be followed and reinforced.

Back to the original thought behind why I started this thread: we could use a few stickies. Like that thread cnislev linked? Should be stickied.

Probably a new submoderator would be in order for this area only? Maybe the admins should be adviced of the matter.

Thanks for the nod cnislev, I appreciate it.