What no sticky?

KevinM wrote:

direwolf wrote:

Even if they don't get cleared for tournament play, it would be nice to have a system in place for fair and balanced cards that could be used in casual play.

'Casual' play is as irrelevant to the VEKN. Why should they, or any governing body, care one bit how you play their game/sport when you aren't playing for meaning or consequences? Why do you want the official governing body to govern your personal life?

Ok, put it this way:

Since the game is no longer published, there is no authority for which to include new cards in tournament play. However if there were a governing body to allow for new cards to be created and be accepted for "casual" play, then that is a step onto competitive play. Even cards printed by White Wolf had a delay before they were legal for play in tournaments.

Anyone can make up some cards that say "I Win" and print them and try to play them. But they have to be accepted as valid by the community. If people seriously want to make up new cards and play them we need a system to validate these cards. Whether it be for casual play or tournament play.

direwolf wrote:

Ok, put it this way: Since the game is no longer published, there is no authority for which to include new cards in tournament play.

Incorrect. The VEKN is a non-corporate player-based organization, but it is the "official" organization for every aspect of the game. That's assuming, of course, that you wish to continue playing the game for international ranking and with international consequences.

Again: If you wish to play by your own rules when nothing is at stake and all the other players agree to play by your rules and not the current official rules set, feel free.

direwolf wrote:

Anyone can make up some cards that say "I Win" and print them and try to play them. But they have to be accepted as valid by the community. If people seriously want to make up new cards and play them {{in casual play}} we need a system to validate these cards.

There was never a system in place for 15 years of WW/CCP ownership to validate homemade cards for non-tournament play. Why do you believe that there should be one now?

I've been reading these cards that have been created by some of the players. They range from ridiculous to stupid to balanced to boring to interesting. I've given feedback on a few of them. All of them have gotten some feedback. (And I'm not even counting Pascal giving his personal, non-official feedback.) Is this non-official feedback not enough to satisfy you?

Note that there *IS* a system of new card review for official tournament play: The Design Team. Whether the VEKN has put together such a team, whether the VEKN will ask people to play test cards that are created, whether those cards will become "legal for tournament play", I have no idea, because I am not part of the VEKN leadership, nor am I part of The Design Team (whether or not one exists).

Note that there *IS* a system of new card review for official tournament play: The Design Team. Whether the VEKN has put together such a team, whether the VEKN will ask people to play test cards that are created, whether those cards will become "legal for tournament play", I have no idea, because I am not part of the VEKN leadership, nor am I part of The Design Team (whether or not one exists).

I think this was one of the questions asked a couple of posts earlier. You implied you knew something about the design team, you were asked if you really did, and I really contemplated if anyone should speak FOR the design team, or speculate their intentions (like how they reply to the notion of 'casual play'), if they aren't in it, or know nothing about it.

What I would like to have, is an announcement from the VEKN part about what's going on. I've heard stuff about a new .pdf release, or something, but there's really no informationa anywhere.

I, for one, would love to hear more - either about something being done, or not!

Kraus wrote:

I think this was one of the questions asked a couple of posts earlier. You implied you knew something about the design team, you were asked if you really did, and I really contemplated if anyone should speak FOR the design team, or speculate their intentions (like how they reply to the notion of 'casual play'), if they aren't in it, or know nothing about it.

Let me be clear: What I "know" is nothing, since I'm not part of any design team. I was never part of a design team with WW/CCP and I'm not part of a design team now. I know that one existed with WW/CCP because it was publicly known that LSJ *was* the design team. So, with the VEKN, I'm *assuming* that there is a design team, if the VEKN has any intent upon releasing new cards in the future, cards which would have to be PDF-based and free to avoid a lawsuit.

There was some talk of PDF-based cards being the future of V:TES at the NAC, in the sense that Johannes was there and some players were barraging him with suggestions, and he didn't say anything official in response, but thought that many of the ideas had merit, and he somewhat agreed that PDF-based cards would be the way to go if a company couldn't be found to print actual playing cards.

Or, there might not be a design team, if the VEKN has no intent upon releasing new cards.

Kraus wrote:

What I would like to have, is an announcement from the VEKN part about what's going on. I've heard stuff about a new .pdf release, or something, but there's really no information anywhere.

Why do you expect the VEKN to announce that they are developing new cards for official tournament play if such a thing was never done in 10+ years of WW/CCP organization? There was a sort-of timetable for which the players could expect a new set within, but to the best of my knowledge, LSJ never publicly said "OK, I'm developing a new set now."

In other words: What would the VEKN hope to gain by such an announcement?

On the one hand, for players who are interested in the continuation of the game, it'd be an interesting, fun announcement that new cards were being developed. Perhaps such an announcement could entice a current player who is thinking about quitting to stay. I seriously doubt that any potential new player would come on board simply because the VEKN is developing new cards.

On the other hand, if the VEKN doesn't have a date in mind for play testing and/or release for play, or if the cards will be released piecemeal or as part of a set, I can see this forum, and perhaps the entire forum, becoming massively disrupted by every player putting in their two cents about everything and anything that pops into their head.

Given those options, and whatever else I haven't thought of, the VEKN is probably wise to limit the existence and identities of the design team and/or new PDF-cased cards a secret for now.

If a design team and/or new cards even exist, of course.

I'm *assuming* --

Thank you.

Why do you expect the VEKN to announce that they are developing new cards for official tournament play if such a thing was never done in 10+ years of WW/CCP organization?

Lönkka was the one spreading bits of information about the new set "being considered, and on the first steps of design," (not a direct quote) in Ropecon last August. If there is something being done, I'd love to hear of it. We're not a secretive corporation, but fans working on hobby supplies for fans. Some open mindness can't hurt, to be fair.

In other words: What would the VEKN hope to gain by such an announcement?

Applaudes, pats to the back, cheers, more questions about release dates, happy people waiting for new stuff, inspired gamers, probably more offers for fan-made art...

I'd love to be able to tell the swarm of beginners in here that there's something either coming or not, not just 'something probably being discussed'. People fed up easily if the community chairmen keep failing expectations, leave said people in the dark, leave rumours hanging...

To be fair, it's just good taste and better leadership to inform who's doing what, and keep people informed. Manners, sportsmanship, whatever - it's good policy.

On the other hand, if the VEKN doesn't have a date in mind for play testing and/or release for play, or if the cards will be released piecemeal or as part of a set, I can see this forum, and perhaps the entire forum, becoming massively disrupted by every player putting in their two cents about everything and anything that pops into their head.

But this IS happening right now, isn't it? I can name more than three people working on a rather wide list of new cards. I'd argue it's to a similar end: getting people interested in the continuation, inspiring discussion, poking around to get the people in charge to comment, or get someone from the supposed team to recognize their work. Or any combination of those. I mean, the issue at hand is that people DO want some news, and more importantly a new set of cards. They're just poking around blindly because there's no leadership. And I suppose VEKN was supposed to handle the leadership department. If not, then what's the purpose of it, other than lists of players, scores and tournament announcements (however important they may be).

If a design team and/or new cards even exist, of course.

Well, even if it doesn't, please let us know!

Wow that is a lot of non-information -_-

I'm still digesting (or not digesting?) everything that's been posted since my last post...

Here's something an official channel from this not-a-design team might address: What is the purpose of designing new cards?

A lot of the cards people suggest are "fixes" to something they see wrong with the game. But we have to think about creating new deck strategies or evolving existing strategies. Do we need more basic cards that expand on the base set, or are they all specialized?

Also, part of the point about the questions I'm asking, if there is a discussion about how to continue the game (if possible) is that I'd like to at least know what is being said and get involved if that's possible. I'm curious about the design process. I'd rather be in the know than be surprised if there is an official announcement after months/years of backdoor discussion.

If the only thing that happens is that some people who are involved in the design of the game and makes them think about it, then I will be satisfied.