What no sticky?

I don’t want to push this topic too far, but I believe it comes down to the fact of VEKN being the “official” player’s organization for VTES. This is in regards to the way it is organized and the kind of authority the “officials” (should) have or they think they have.

In previous days as one or another company was actively promoting and publishing the game, this company had the authority to grant the adjective “official” to one or more person(s). By definition official means “ordered or allowed by those in authority”. “Those” people could be identified easily and they could choose with whom they wanted to work.

Currently the situation is different. With White Wolf ceasing the publication of VTES, they clearly stated that they (currently) have no interest to be involved in the promotion, potential growth and future health of VTES. Therefore that they no longer are “those in authority” for me. With the loss of the previously granted “official“ status I believe it is necessary for VEKN to re-establish this status. Being a players organization, the only group “in authority” is it’s members: The players.

Therefore my message to those who believe they are in charge (by whatever authority):
More transparency, please or you will loose the connection to the player base!

•

• Suggestion: Regular (at least bi-monthly) newsletters on the VEKN homepage. Let the public know what is going on!
• •Suggestion: Let the players know what VEKN`s long, mid and short term goals are!
• •Suggestion: Tell us about the ways you (or maybe we all ?!) can achieve the goals.
• •Suggestion: (Maybe the most concrete) Have regular promotion events. Nothing big, just like storyline started: Have a clan or a sect to be “the one”, make a tiny adjustment to the rules for a certain period of time. Then, let players report on how their deck worked and how they loved/hated it. Look at ideas for casual gamers and get feedback on facebook or wherever . . . ..get people involved on a small AND big scale.

Vitel
Long term VEKN Prince, “Official” VTES Rules Translator, Tournament organizer, Founding member of VEKN in 1997 and currently in torpor

@KevinM:
Rights – what money are we taking away from Hasbro?? Their rights to VTES are gathering dust in a corner until someone buys/licenses them (fat chance?). And if cards are sold on a costs only basis (which I strongly support), then noone will be making any profit from unlawfully using the rights. The potential profit Hasbro might gain from shutting down VTES and having players shift to, say, magic, is speculative at best (would you switch?). That makes any litigation a matter of principle rather than recovering the equivalent of stolen property. On top of that you get the massive cost of running litigation.
I know a bit about how management teams and legal departments work *generally* from my work as a lawyer where I advise these people all the time. My point is not that we should do all kinds of weird tricks and fight an epic legal battle. My point is that management and the legal team will appreciate the difficulty and expense of running litigation against what is basically a player community, and the bad PR that might follow together with the limited prospect of recovering compensation for the unlawful use of the rights. Heck, Im probably optimistic about the idea of some sort of agreement with Hasbro and WW, but I am a fan of this game and would love to see new expansions, so am trying to be constructive. Im sure VEKN have thought about this though, so its probably a moot point to discuss.

Community involvement in card design – I’m just suggesting a solution to three problems that I see:

1. Reports that VEKN is very busy. Solution: use community effort to assist VEKN
2. Vacuum left by WW’s withdrawal, and VEKN’s need to establish and maintain its authority. Solution: involve player community.
3. Continued player support being crucial for the survival of the game. Solution: involve player community and acknowledge their efforts instead of alienating them.

I could also turn your question upside down: what is the advantage of refusing to use community input? I am not talking about VEKN reading all posts, or to consider every screwball idea. I am talking about making_their_work_easier, perhaps something along the following lines:

1. Someone comes up with a card idea and design (already happening in this forum)
2. Idea and design is reviewed by players (already happening)
3. Best card ideas selected on, say, a monthly basis by players (not hapenning, but could easily be done by polls etc.)
4. VEKN acknowledges player community’s monthly suggestion by a short post (like Pascal’s post above).
5. VEKN decides exclusively what cards to develop, arranges beta tests, final sanctioning, publication (I assume that’s what happened previously and now). Players are credited if their design/card idea is used (easily done).

The community is made up of players just like the people that constitute VEKN, so there is no reason why a review by the community at large would not shed some light on which ideas are good, and which are bad.

Re VEKN establishing/maintaining authority, this point has been developed by Izaak and MarcusVitel above. I think MV sums up quite well: “More transparency, please or you will lose the connection to the player base”.
I have only played this game for 10 years, but its still easy to see what great things VEKN/the designers have accomplished. But VEKN is players like you and me. Its not the company who invented the WoD background or the game mechanics. No professionals are employed. I can understand why previously White Wolf might have felt a commercial need to keep confidential the development of new expansions, and their strategy in general, but such commercial considerations no longer apply.

Why should non-VEKN players be treated like lesser beings from whom secrets must be kept? Why not transparency? As a player, I am reluctant to wait years for a new expansion in the belief that VEKN will sort it out, just to find out that, say, they could never reach agreement on some point or another, and no new cards will come. In the meantime, scores of players might have left the game for good and the community suffered irreparable damage. If I really wanted to, Im sure I could persuade the Prince of Copenhagen to let me do his job for a year, and gain access to the prince forum. But that’s not the point, it’s the principle of dividing people up when there is no reason for doing so that Im against.

I know that e.g. a bi-montly newsletter, or formulation + communication of mid/long term goals will mean more work for busy VEKN people – but then involve more people! There’s a forum full of them right here!

Anyway, I think we’ve moved a bit away from the outset of this discussion, which was the creation of a sticky for compiling/structuring/organizing player ideas. I am sending a suggestion to Damnans for such a sticky now.

cnislev wrote:

@KevinM:
Rights – what money are we taking away from Hasbro?? Their rights to VTES are gathering dust in a corner until someone buys/licenses them (fat chance?). And if cards are sold on a costs only basis (which I strongly support), then no one will be making any profit from unlawfully using the rights.

The printer will.

Printer's are in the business of making money, not of donating goods.

cnislev wrote:

1. Reports that VEKN is very busy. Solution: use community effort to assist VEKN

Wrong solution.
If you want to volunteer, volunteer.
The "prince" list is dying for your help.
Join up now.

Adonai wrote:

cnislev wrote:

1. Reports that VEKN is very busy. Solution: use community effort to assist VEKN

Wrong solution.
If you want to volunteer, volunteer.
The "prince" list is dying for your help.
Join up now.

I feel everyone who's posting in this forum is volunteering their effort in some way, but perhaps in an unstructured/aimless way. From my understanding at least some of the people posting in this forum agree with this, and this is why we're trying to focus the efforts. Im sure there's lots of work/posts being made in this forum which is already being taken care of by VEKN/the princes/NCs, but with little communication thats difficult to know, which is a waste I think.

But sure, good idea. Not being a prince I had no idea that the "prince" list was looking for volunteers. How to volunteer? I have looked at the "Organisational Questions"-Forum ("Got a question about how to run a tournament, how to become a volunteer or, ultimately, how to promote VTES?") - but couldnt see any threads on volunteering. Should I start a thread or contact administrators? I would want to know if I would have to keep secret everything I do as a volunteer and refrain from, say, posting in this forum any more about card development - in which case volunteering doesnt sound very attractive