file Number of VtES players

26 Aug 2019 21:11 #96555 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Number of VtES players

self biased wrote: Do you have veteran players dropping the hammer on your new players?

Thankfully, I've never had to ask a player in my group to not slam dunk a new player, and I wouldn't invite them back if they continued to do so after being asked not to.[/i]


I have to remind you too, that there is PTW rule, so not crushing a player when it is beneficial to you on the outside the game considerations (he is new), is against the rules. ;)

:splat: NC Russia
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26 Aug 2019 21:42 #96557 by Pyrocuror
Replied by Pyrocuror on topic Number of VtES players
I feel like I'm talking about the elephant in the room but the decreasing player base from 2010 to nowadays is pretty much tied to the fact that there were no cards printed ... It's not because of combat. I mean the game was almost dead, still got maintained in an artificial respiration state by the core player base, and got reanimated by BCP hard work. .
If anything as a Ancilla player - more than 15 years - in VTES , I'm much more tired to play against (stickmen/grinders) and decks that play a trillion (Eyes of Argus/Sense the Savage way) than anything else.
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26 Aug 2019 21:58 - 27 Aug 2019 07:00 #96558 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Number of VtES players
You quote my post were I say that we have some new players and that THEY ARE NOT SCARED BY COMBAT AS IT IS and you reply saying that there are fewer players than there was.

Actually here I agree : there are fewer players than before. But the new players I know ARE NOT AFRAID OF COMBAT IN VTES.

Modedit\\ Omitted reference to a deleted post.
Last edit: 27 Aug 2019 07:00 by Kraus.
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26 Aug 2019 21:58 #96559 by drnlmza
Replied by drnlmza on topic Number of VtES players

Kilrauko wrote: [08-05-2016] The V:EKN currently has 15220 members (players with a V:EKN number). However, only 1078 can be considered active (i.e, having played a V:EKN sanctioned tournament recently)."


While there's no obvious way to get the full number of active players for the ranking system as an ordinary user, currently (2019-08-26) players with 5 ranking points (the minimum possible) are jointly ranked at #1243 , so more than that number of players have participated in a tournament in the last 18 months. While a more detailed analysis is needed, that does suggest that the number of active players has increased somewhat since 2016.

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26 Aug 2019 22:33 #96563 by Kilrauko
Replied by Kilrauko on topic Number of VtES players

elotar wrote: And most probably you will disappear again after a few more months.


Yet that has nothing to do with the body of my arguments or the validity of them.

elotar wrote: I'm quite long camper here, have seen countless such new (or returned) enthusiastic players, unfortunately most of them are not present any more. And we will never know what was the cause of their disappearance, but we can guess (which is not hard if you know anything about ccg design).


That is pure conjecture as we will never know what was the cause of their disappearance. For all we know they've all moved to higher plane of VTES playing (kicked the bucket) while we of course hope they've just taken a temporary break(preferably not the "just getting smokes" one) and will return once they are able. Claiming it was because x, y or z without providing proof is just that, a claim and a shaky one at that.

That's why I prefer to speak for people and things I know and with examples I've experienced as I've verified them. You'll naturally have to either take my word for it or accept them as claims as I accept yours. This is also why I'm asking details, personal experiences and persist on getting them instead accepting handwaved generic "(which is not hard if you know anything about ccg design)" statements.

elotar wrote: I'm using Ropecon statistics as some countable measure of player engagement in your general area. Cool stories about new players are fine, but mean nothing - new playgroups are always forming, but you have to compare it to the old playgroups demises.


If people paid closer attention to the events and their substance instead using only participant numbers they would perhaps get more accurate assesment on what keeps players around. Ropecon event has established participants that make up large majority of it's small sub VTES tournee attendees yearly. What's more closer attention would ensure one doesn't try to use those numbers to support notions they have when said numbers have no connection to the argument they're trying to support.

I still would like to know how you've arrived at the 99.9% or even 95% number for "potential VTES players turned away by combat." The Ropecon event I referred earlier had clear "potential VTES player" retention. Not 10%, 30% or 70% but a 100%. Feel free to check the other years that you quoted and see how close to your >90% loss of "potential players" they get.

When one makes a claim, they should be ready to back it up with evidence and if proven to be wrong act accordingly. I consider the 2014 event checkup I made earlier to be a freely given as I do not wish people to operate under false premises and draw wrong conclusions. If you have personal experience examples instead assumed statistical ones to back up your earlier claims, I'm interested to hear them, even better if there's VEKN event you can point at.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
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26 Aug 2019 23:51 #96566 by LivesByProxy
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic Number of VtES players
I'm curious: how it is that VTES has endured in Europe, but here in the American South-East, the original home of White Wolf, the game is virtually dead? Between South Carolina, North Carolina, and Georgia (combined are approximately the size of Germany) there are maybe 40 players...

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