file Number of VtES players

28 Aug 2019 06:44 #96600 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Number of VtES players

elotar wrote:

self biased wrote:
What are things that you feel you can do to help build and restore the V:tes community in Russia?[/i]


Redesign the game to make it more friendly to casual players? Lol.


Game design its not a hole problem. You are taking out a very important part: Player mentality.

If a game translates to a competitive state there always be a problem between competitive and casual player mentality it's not a problem only of game design.

It happens in all games AoS(that is branded a casual game), W40k, T9A competitive player will min/max performance of their build with leads to abusive state vere casual player is feeling destroyed without any hopes of planing the game. It's up to community to balance out. If a player is playing with casuals and brining a top tier tournament deck/army it's his fault that they quit not the game design.

You have to know your community and adjust. Mine for example is highly competitive and we dont play casual decks most of the time. But if we are playing with new people we never bring our normal decks out because we are aware that will discourage them.

In the end, its not possible to have a game balanced for both groups by design. It's up to a players balancing the experience on their own.

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28 Aug 2019 06:49 - 28 Aug 2019 06:52 #96601 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Number of VtES players

elotar wrote:

self biased wrote:
What are things that you feel you can do to help build and restore the V:tes community in Russia?[/i]


Redesign the game to make it more friendly to casual players? Lol.


Actually, I don't think this is something YOU can do...

But if you feel this is something that is needed, feel free to host some storylines in your country with the houserules you think are needed and tell us afterward if it brought new players to the game and if they enjoyed it.

Some ideas of houserules that would (IMO) help mitigate the frustration of being able to do nothing with all your vampires in torpor :
- a vampire you control can gain 2 blood from the blood bank as a MPA
- during your unlock phase you can pay a pool or a vampire you control can burn a blood to move a vampire you control from torpor to the ready region

And if you feel you need it you can add both of these rules to your friendly games and storylines.
Last edit: 28 Aug 2019 06:52 by Timo.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kraus

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28 Aug 2019 09:47 #96603 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Number of VtES players

Timo wrote:

elotar wrote:

self biased wrote:
What are things that you feel you can do to help build and restore the V:tes community in Russia?[/i]


Redesign the game to make it more friendly to casual players? Lol.


Actually, I don't think this is something YOU can do...


You are underestimating me - obviously I can do it. I've, actually, made most of preliminary work needed for it: you can find results if you browse old topics. But it looks like a lot of work with a little upside - my regular playgroup are dedicated veteran players, they are quite fine with the game and not really interested in changing old habits and playtesting new ideas. We still got couple unopened storyline kits and I think the last version of a draft cube was never played. Bunch of new players may be fun, but by now I got no time for active recruiting, we still haven't got any place to buy cards and "house rules" are in general not so popular here.

I'm still doing some thinking about it like a mental exercise. Actually how to solve the "too much combat" problem I still do not quite sure. The obvious first step is to make leaving torpor cost 1 blood and 5 transfer rule to make rush weenies weaker, but is it enough?

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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28 Aug 2019 10:02 #96604 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Number of VtES players

Tadori wrote:
If a game translates to a competitive state there always be a problem between competitive and casual player mentality it's not a problem only of game design.

It happens in all games AoS(that is branded a casual game), W40k, T9A competitive player will min/max performance of their build with leads to abusive state vere casual player is feeling destroyed without any hopes of planing the game.


That better players will win is not a bug, it actually should be a feature ;)

But how they will matters. Possibility of abusing state in a game is a design problem. Yea, it's very common in present games, because most present games are crap, not because it's unavoidable.

As an example: new player can be powerbled to death. But it's fine - solution "put more deflections" is quite obvious and understandable (except, again obviously, there should be access to bounce for all clans). New player can be rushed by tupdogs to death. And this is not fine, as there are no sane solution to this problem.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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28 Aug 2019 10:51 - 28 Aug 2019 11:06 #96605 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Number of VtES players

elotar wrote:
That better players will win is not a bug, it actually should be a feature ;)

But how they will matters. Possibility of abusing state in a game is a design problem. Yea, it's very common in present games, because most present games are crap, not because it's unavoidable.


I cant think of the game that is 100% well balanced. For me only one I can think of coming close is Guild Ball were all faction had 50+/-5 % win rate but even they have a balance issues recently

elotar wrote:
As an example: new player can be powerbled to death. But it's fine - solution "put more deflections" is quite obvious and understandable (except, again obviously, there should be access to bounce for all clans). New player can be rushed by tupdogs to death. And this is not fine, as there are no sane solution to this problem.


Combat ends, anti grapple cards, madre di dio, prevents, combat cancels, secure haven ? There are tons of cards to reduce combat treat
Last edit: 28 Aug 2019 11:06 by Tadori.

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28 Aug 2019 11:33 #96606 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Number of VtES players

elotar wrote:

Tadori wrote:
If a game translates to a competitive state there always be a problem between competitive and casual player mentality it's not a problem only of game design.

It happens in all games AoS(that is branded a casual game), W40k, T9A competitive player will min/max performance of their build with leads to abusive state vere casual player is feeling destroyed without any hopes of planing the game.


That better players will win is not a bug, it actually should be a feature ;)

But how they will matters. Possibility of abusing state in a game is a design problem. Yea, it's very common in present games, because most present games are crap, not because it's unavoidable.

As an example: new player can be powerbled to death. But it's fine - solution "put more deflections" is quite obvious and understandable (except, again obviously, there should be access to bounce for all clans). New player can be rushed by tupdogs to death. And this is not fine, as there are no sane solution to this problem.


Stealth bleed is as toxic as combat imo. The amount of bounce or pool gain needed to deal with a proper bleed deck is pretty silly. More importantly it's just a glaringly negative experience. Bleed u starting turn 2 and eventually 4 or 5 times a turn for 3 to 6 at stealth. Yuck.

Vtes is just a sloppily made game that asks its players to put up with a lot. When I get stuck in a crap game I generally just tell everyone how dumb they are or play on internet.

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