map-pin Rules Team Rulings - RTR 11/05/2018

23 May 2018 05:40 #87367 by PetriWessman
Ok, to be absolutely clear on this:

Let's look at Tariq. His base version is Independent, his Advanced version is Sabbat, and his merge text specifies Independent.

With him, if either version of him is made Anarch before merge, and then he is merged (either way), he reverts back to Independent (because merge text specifies Independent).

Is this correct?

Then let's look at Enzo Giovanni. Both versions specify Independent, but his merge text does not specify sect.

With him, it's clear that if the base version is made Anarch and then he is merged, he reverts back to Independent (due to advanced version specifying that sect). But what happens if the advanced version is made Anarch and then merged with the base version? Does he get to stay Anarch then (due to no sect in merge text), or does he still revert to Independent?

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23 May 2018 06:53 - 23 May 2018 12:44 #87370 by Ankha

PetriWessman wrote: Ok, to be absolutely clear on this:

Let's look at Tariq. His base version is Independent, his Advanced version is Sabbat, and his merge text specifies Independent.

With him, if either version of him is made Anarch before merge, and then he is merged (either way), he reverts back to Independent (because merge text specifies Independent).

Is this correct?

Correct. He changes sect when merged.

PetriWessman wrote: Then let's look at Enzo Giovanni. Both versions specify Independent, but his merge text does not specify sect.

With him, it's clear that if the base version is made Anarch and then he is merged, he reverts back to Independent (due to advanced version specifying that sect).

Correct.

PetriWessman wrote: But what happens if the advanced version is made Anarch and then merged with the base version? Does he get to stay Anarch then (due to no sect in merge text), or does he still revert to Independent?

He stays Anarch, the sect of the base vampire is ignored, and the sect of the advanced vampire has already been taken into account (then superseded by the Anarch sect)

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Last edit: 23 May 2018 12:44 by Ankha.
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23 May 2018 08:27 #87372 by Lönkka
What a lovely can of worms! :/

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23 May 2018 12:45 - 23 May 2018 12:45 #87382 by Ankha

Lönkka wrote: What a lovely can of worms! :/

Why?

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Last edit: 23 May 2018 12:45 by Ankha.

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24 May 2018 07:57 #87418 by Bloodartist
This is a relatively small can of worms, since the amount of advanced vampires who this concerns is rather small ~10. However, I bet some player somewhere goes to play the way he/she thinks it works, and will be surprised in the end if rules lawyers are present.

It is however somewhat unintuitive since first we have counter placed on a vampire that overrules the card text (anarch counter says that this vampire is now an anarch instead of what is printed on the vampire), then we have card text overruling said counter (merged vampire is now independent instead of being an anarch). It would be clearer if for example counters would always overrule card text, so people could maintain this "hierarchy" in their heads what effect is 'stronger'. It would be more intuitive in my opinion. Currently the anarch counter is only a reminder, but it could be the defining factor.

I still prefer anarch and independent being separate sects btw.

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24 May 2018 09:37 - 24 May 2018 09:38 #87422 by Boris The Blade

Bloodartist wrote: It is however somewhat unintuitive since first we have counter placed on a vampire that overrules the card text (anarch counter says that this vampire is now an anarch instead of what is printed on the vampire), then we have card text overruling said counter (merged vampire is now independent instead of being an anarch).

That should not be a problem, because all cards that make anarch counters should already be stating that the counter burns if the vampire changes sect. In case it is missing on some cards, it might be good to lift that point from individual cards to the core rules, because it is really just saying that sect counters follow the general rules of sects.
Last edit: 24 May 2018 09:38 by Boris The Blade.

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