file off-turn Nocturn

13 Aug 2020 09:57 - 13 Aug 2020 09:57 #100530 by Whisker
off-turn Nocturn was created by Whisker
Hi,
I noticed that text for Nocturn in official card list had changed a little.

Name: Nocturn
[SoC:C, HttB:PKia2]
Cardtype: Ally
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obtenebration
Demon with 1 life. 1 strength, 1 bleed.
[obt] {Nocturn can act the turn it is recruited.}. If this is this vampire's first successful recruit action this turn, {unlock him or her}. Nocturn can play non-ally cards {requiring} basic Obtenebration [obt] as a vampire. Burn Nocturn during your unlock phase.
[OBT] As above, and this vampire {can} perform this action again this turn, with the cost increased by 1 blood.
Artist: Leif Jones

If Nocturn is somehow recruited off-turn (e.g. via Malkavian Madness network) does this text change allow Noctrun to act during that (off-) turn?
Last edit: 13 Aug 2020 09:57 by Whisker.

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13 Aug 2020 11:54 - 13 Aug 2020 11:58 #100531 by lip
Replied by lip on topic off-turn Nocturn
Text was changed in accordance to the rule change of [RTR 20180303] .

Since allies are no longer put into the uncontrolled zone, text was changed from "is put into ready region" to "can act the turn it is recruited" for all allies that had this feature.

So, the behaviour has not changed AFAIK. Although your question is relevant given the new wording ☺︎
Last edit: 13 Aug 2020 11:58 by lip.

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13 Aug 2020 13:53 #100536 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic off-turn Nocturn

Whisker wrote: If Nocturn is somehow recruited off-turn (e.g. via Malkavian Madness network) does this text change allow Noctrun to act during that (off-) turn?

No. It just overrides the "If the action is successful, the ally is placed in your ready region, but it cannot act this turn" bold part.

However, there's nothing that allows the Nocturn to act when it's not your minion phase.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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29 Sep 2020 19:47 - 29 Sep 2020 19:49 #100833 by narpassword
Replied by narpassword on topic off-turn Nocturn

Ankha wrote:
However, there's nothing that allows the Nocturn to act when it's not your minion phase.


To be fair, the card seems to say exactly that...

1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards
Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence.


[obt] {Nocturn can act the turn it is recruited.}.

Similarly:

Enkil: During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire can lock this card to take an action.

Madness network: Unlocked Malkavians can take actions in any Methuselah's minion phase (follow normal sequencing rules).


IMO it's not distinct enough from the cards that _do_ allow it to say that Nocturn _doesnt_ allow it. It literally says 'It can act'.

The ruling may be clear, but the card test is not.
Last edit: 29 Sep 2020 19:49 by narpassword.
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30 Sep 2020 10:23 - 30 Sep 2020 10:24 #100835 by Snodig
Replied by Snodig on topic off-turn Nocturn
While it's true that a Nocturn can act "as soon as it is recruited", you still cannot act while it's not your own minion phase. It just doesn't have "recruitment sickness".
This is clearly what Ankha addresses.
Sure, it's not worded perfectly, which is why we needed a ruling in the first place.
Last edit: 30 Sep 2020 10:24 by Snodig. Reason: wording

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30 Sep 2020 10:28 #100836 by Snodig
Replied by Snodig on topic off-turn Nocturn
If you look at the old wording:
"Move Nocturn to the ready region when recruited"
it's pretty clear what the intended effect was.

However, since allies are now put in the ready region by default, the wording needed to change. There is no reason to assume the behavior did, however.

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