Expansion Update

I know this will be a very, very controversial idea. But if the distribution of the cards will be done via PDF and locally printed for each player, why not make all printed proxy's legal? It would go a long way to promote the game (i.e. free cards) while I'm sure collectors like me still would appreciate having "real cards" (much like how blackbordered lotus and mox'es are still valued in M:tg).

Just a thought, once the game gets picked up though you could go back to banning printed proxys.

Just consider the possibilities of recruiting new players once the first bump of actually getting cards for a "dead game" is removed.

Myrdin wrote:

I know this will be a very, very controversial idea. But if the distribution of the cards will be done via PDF and locally printed for each player, why not make all printed proxy's legal? It would go a long way to promote the game (i.e. free cards) while I'm sure collectors like me still would appreciate having "real cards" (much like how blackbordered lotus and mox'es are still valued in M:tg).

Just a thought, once the game gets picked up though you could go back to banning printed proxys.

Just consider the possibilities of recruiting new players once the first bump of actually getting cards for a "dead game" is removed.

This makes perfect sense to make printable cards on PDF. It would be much less of a hassle than trying to pre-order a bunch of cards from some printing house and more cost-effective as long as they are very printer friendly or there is a high resolution and a low resolution version.

I agree that for people who aren't worried about the feel of the cards, then proxies are fine. People can print them out, use them in their decks and so on.

I personally like the 'feel' of the properly printed cards and would happily preorder cards from VEKN, knowing that I will get a certain quality of product.

For tournaments though, as a Prince/Judge, there is a problem with being able to 'feel' the top card and know what card it could be. So we may have to have a think about how tournaments will work, if we will require that an entire deck be "DIY Print" or "Pro Print".

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

I agree that for people who aren't worried about the feel of the cards, then proxies are fine. People can print them out, use them in their decks and so on.

I personally like the 'feel' of the properly printed cards and would happily preorder cards from VEKN, knowing that I will get a certain quality of product.

For tournaments though, as a Prince/Judge, there is a problem with being able to 'feel' the top card and know what card it could be. So we may have to have a think about how tournaments will work, if we will require that an entire deck be "DIY Print" or "Pro Print".

If you get opaque-backed sleeves and either size them well or glue/tape them to regular cards, they should be about right.

What I do if I have to mix sets (i.e. 3rd, Jyhad, other) is just mix more cards than I have to (i.e. my 7 Jyhad Parity Shifts with 3 jyhad deflections, 4 jyhad freak drives, 2 jyhad governs, etc and the other copies of those cards are VTES backed).

All of the VEKN expansions should be printable by users only.

Selling it online as professional LCG ou CCG is not a legal option. Even with 0% profit, we will be hurting the copyright laws.

Proxies should be slowed introduced to our playing environment. After 3-4 years after an VTES expansion is sold out, that expansion exclusive cards should be allowed to be proxied.

Example: Lords of the Night is a all-new cards expansion, with no reprints (excluding pre-con decks). After it is sold out, after 3 years, by VEKN directos, proxies of it should be allowed in tourneaments.

Example 2: Keepers is sold out. After some years, its exclusive cards (like Old Friends, Charismatic Aura or Heroic Mighty) could be printed and used as proxies, but cards still available in other expansions should not (like Golconda: Inner Peace or Heart of Nizchetus).

that's my 2 cents.

I agree with all that Mr Bronson has said. There are copyright and trademark exposures in such an activity, irregardless of whether anyone is making any profit. What we have in our favor is that DIY printing from a downloaded pdf is typically ignored.

As to the other point, of when proxies for past cards should be allowed, I think the prices and availability at Potomac distribution make a good barometer for when an expansion is "sold out". Once their prices get silly (over $100 a booster box), proxies should be allowable.

This might sound crazy to hear a reseller saying such things, but in my view the game will eventually go to the ash heap if players (new, old and returning) don't have ready access to new and existing cards. My long-term interests are to see the game survive, and some short term loss is worth it.

Charles_Bronson wrote:

All of the VEKN expansions should be printable by users only.

Selling it online as professional LCG ou CCG is not a legal option. Even with 0% profit, we will be hurting the copyright laws.

Proxies should be slowed introduced to our playing environment. After 3-4 years after an VTES expansion is sold out, that expansion exclusive cards should be allowed to be proxied.

Example: Lords of the Night is a all-new cards expansion, with no reprints (excluding pre-con decks). After it is sold out, after 3 years, by VEKN directos, proxies of it should be allowed in tourneaments.

Example 2: Keepers is sold out. After some years, its exclusive cards (like Old Friends, Charismatic Aura or Heroic Mighty) could be printed and used as proxies, but cards still available in other expansions should not (like Golconda: Inner Peace or Heart of Nizchetus).

that's my 2 cents.